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Sit and Go turbo question

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  1. moverdude moverdude is offline

    Lancaster, CA
    United States

    Posts: 85
    Joined: Feb 06

    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 2:48pm)

    I've been playing the $2 18 seat turbo's on FT and it's been kinda break even after about 100 or so games. Is this because there is very little skill involved in these because blinds rise so fast or is there away to get an edge in these? I'm thinking maybe getting away from turbo and just go normal blind struture if there is such an animal. Thanks

    Craig
  2. Rev.K Rev.K is offline

    Calgary
    Canada

    Posts: 865
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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 2:56pm) in reply to moverdude

    I don't like turbos because my style is very TAG and I find that I'm just not able to alter my style to play the way I need to in order to accumulate chips.

    I like normal blind structures far more, and I love the $5 deepstack SNG on Full Tilt. Even though I've never cashed (goddamn it!) I've never done worse than 30th out of 90. It's definitely my favorite structure and I'd still be playing them if I hadn't drained my BR on cash games.
  3. tigertoes tigertoes is offline

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:23pm) in reply to moverdude

    There is skill involved and as you move up in buy-ins it becomes more obivous. Jen could tell you more about that. For low and mid level turbo sngs I find that playing a solid style upfront, understanding push/fold, ICM and volume will help to improve your game.

    For me when it gets to 4-5 players I go after the middle stacks and avoid the big stack if at all possible. This alone is a slight edge that can help to boost your ROI.

    gl
  4. Chip Daddy Chip Daddy is offline

    Riverside, CA
    United States

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:24pm) in reply to moverdude

    There actually is a strategy to these.. if u play too tight and/or too passive u will miss many opptys to build a stack. At the same time u dont wanna go to wild and play every hand .

    I try to limp early on with small pairs and sooted connectors and see a cheap flop and get paid off early with these types of hands when I hit.
    esp in those lower limits where u get a lot of limpers its almost uncommon for there to be a raise with the blinds soo small.

    set mining is a good way to start though.
  5. Dissident Dissident is offline

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:27pm) in reply to Chip Daddy

    I would play these the same way I play $6 turbos. I am literally folding 95% of hands until 50-100 and above.

    I want to conserve as much as my stack as I can and have as much fold equity as possible for when it becomes a shove fest. You certainly need to have an idea of what hands you will be shoving with at this point in the game and you certainly cannot be afraid to lose. Try playing 4 or more at once
  6. moman1965 moman1965 is offline

    Katy, TX
    United States

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:28pm) in reply to moverdude

    I am not the greatest in the world, but certainly trying... But I have found the 18's to be plus EV (about 15%). Trick, don't blow your stack early chasing bad hands. About half the field will get knocked out because they limp every hand hoping to catch the magic striaght. Keep your chips and when it gets to the bubble time, then get aggressive.
  7. JACK WELCH JACK WELCH is offline

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:55pm) in reply to moverdude

    Craig - The blinds rise at the same speed for everybody, winners & losers.
    The consensus is to play tight early. Try folding everything but AA, KK, QQ, JJ & AK. Open the betting with 4-5xBB. f you can limp with a suited Ace or pair, that might not be a bad idea. Fold if you don't 4-flush or hit a set. You want to focus more on winning pots later than early. Don't risk your stack to win relatively small stacks early when you want to have those chips to take bigger risks later.
    Open up when the antes kick in. And reduce the size of your opener to 2.5xBB. Look for opportunities to steal the blinds. If no one has entered the pot, you have to take your shot. Play position, target average-sized stacks. Remember, every successful steal is not only more chips for you, but less for your opponents.
    On the money bubble, typically you have two choices: shove or fold.
    Folks are typically shoving when stacks get to 10xBB.
    At least, that's what I've heard....
    How are the people who are beating you playing these games???
    Full Tilt has non-turbo $2 18-seaters. - Jack
  8. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 3:58pm) in reply to moverdude

    The turbos require a different kind of skill. There is definitely not a lack of skill in turbo SNGs. That's why all of the pros play them almost exclusively.

    That said, turbos may not be right for you at this stage of your development.

    I'm afraid that a 100 game sample is pretty meaningless.

    The best thing you can do for yourself in these is learn push/fold.

    Review your games using this:
    Nash ICM Push/Fold Calculator

    Here's an article on the subject:

    Should You Play Turbo or Regular SNG's
  9. Rycky4Golf Rycky4Golf is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 4:21pm) in reply to Jennifear

    As Jen well knows, I was where you are about 2-3 months ago. I didn't like the idea of playing turbos because I felt I was better at sitting back with my TAG style and letting the game come to me. I did not like the idea of having to start pushing hands after 20 minutes into a SNG and fear either losing a race or running into a monster.

    Now after getting about 200 or so turbos under my belt I'm very glad I finally took Jen's advice and took the plunge. Mind you, the early games took a little getting accustomed to but now I look forward to the late stages of one of these turbo SNGs. Is there a different skill set you have to develop? Sure there is. However I can guarantee you that I never thought I would be able to handle the changes either.

    Today I can honestly say I'm more comfortable playing turbos than I ever was in the regulars. I've achieved better results at the turbos than I did the regulars so far (in limited samples), though the doom switch on stars is cramping my numbers... I need to find a way to switch that thing off. AP and Bodog seem to treat me right. :)

    What I would suggest is to play some of the smaller buyin turbos, like I did on Bodog with the 3.30 games (I think Stars has a 10-man turbo for 3.40). Once you get used to the end-game of these turbos I think you'll really enjoy them. I would, of course, suggest a lesson with Jen... I can't begin to tell you how much it made a difference for me.
  10. moverdude moverdude is offline

    Lancaster, CA
    United States

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    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 5:08pm) in reply to moverdude

    Thanks for the advice and respones everyone! I'll tell you what, my experience here has been alot different this last week than it was when I left here in january (I thought for good) :)

    I use to avoid turbos like the plaque and just play regular ones. I had pretty good success at the regular ones, then got on the ice wagon and couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat. My BR took a good hit but I've hung in there and I'm trying not to deposit. My BR is down to $130.00 :( I know it's not impossible to get back to the higher levels but I know I have a long road.

    Hmm, shove or fold, I kinda like that. Takes the think work out of it. My problem is that sometimes (okay all the time) I get real competetive. If I see a guy playing lots of hands, then I want to mix it up with him and beat him, lol. I gotta stop that. It's the baseball pitcher in me that wants to strike him out (I dont have the arm anymore so I use poker). Enough is enough, time to get serious.

    The only way I see to beat the game is the math. It always seems to come down to that. Maybe I need to get rid of my hard headedness and take some lessons. I've heard good things about Jennifear's lessons, maybe that approach is next for me (she's like a car salesman chasing me with the keys, LOL) Kidding Jen.

    Okay, it's a shove or fold game for me right now untill I see whats going on.I'll be playing on FT about 5pm pst at the $2 18seat turbo if anyone would like to join me and figure this out with me :) I might just try to throw you a fastball ;) lol
    Thread Starter
  11. moverdude moverdude is offline

    Lancaster, CA
    United States

    Posts: 85
    Joined: Feb 06

    Aug 22nd, 2008 (8/22/2008 8:06pm) in reply to moverdude

    I'm in now if anyone wants to join me for one
    Thread Starter
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