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SNG 3-handed K3, Call/Fold Spot? WWYD?

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  1. delete21 delete21 is offline

    Westwood, NJ
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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 1:57pm)

    If we put him on any two, SNGPT says:
    Call hands: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3o+,J2s+,T6o+,T3s+,97o+,95s+,86s+ ,76s (65.3%)
    (CALL)
    However, if we put him on 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2s+,Q6o+,J7s+,J9o+,T8s+,98s, then our call range is:
    22+,A2+,K8o+,K6s+,QTo+,Q9s+ (29.7%)
    (FOLD)

    So which range do we assign, and what is the correct decision? He is in the power position, but we are running low on FE with a fold here...WWYD?

    pokerstars Game #12129446572: Tournament #61551802, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2007/09/18 - 13:43:50 (ET)
    Table '61551802 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 7: abiliocosta (13935 in chips)
    Seat 8: int babay :D (7370 in chips)
    Seat 9: dparker313 (5695 in chips)
    abiliocosta: posts the ante 75
    int babay :D: posts the ante 75
    dparker313: posts the ante 75
    int babay :D: posts small blind 600
    dparker313: posts big blind 1200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to dparker313 [3s Kh]
    abiliocosta: folds
    int babay :D: raises 6095 to 7295 and is all-in
    dparker313:???
  2. sharkzilla1 sharkzilla1 is offline

    Grand Blanc, MI
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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:01pm) in reply to delete21

    I think we can assign more the first range which I suppose makes this a call even though I still hate making it.

    Normally without looking at numbers I fold here and just shove either my sb or button no matter what.
  3. chicagocards1 chicagocards1 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:03pm) in reply to sharkzilla1

    fold
  4. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:05pm) in reply to chicagocards1

    Any basis? According to the math, if he is pushing any two (as he should), it is a call...
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  5. BeesMoose BeesMoose is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:06pm) in reply to delete21

    Call, u will have less than 4 bb after this, and if hes any type of player hes certainly pushing with way worse than k3...
  6. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:12pm) in reply to BeesMoose

    I am hoping some bigtime grinders will respond also. Thanks for the discussion so far
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  7. BeesMoose BeesMoose is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:14pm) in reply to delete21

    i grind enough to respond to this easy call lol
  8. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:14pm) in reply to BeesMoose

    Yikes
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  9. sobizzle21 sobizzle21 is offline Scammer

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:15pm) in reply to delete21

    i definetly call...if u fold u might get 24 the next 5 hands and be down to nothing or u shove with ur 24 and if u get called ur done for so i think u might as well gamble it up here where u should be ahead most of the time and if not...fuck it and gambooool
    970 
  10. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 2:18pm) in reply to sobizzle21

    For the record I go with the math and agree with the call. But there are plenty of good grinders that would fold here, so I am looking for some argument from the other side.
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  11. sharkzilla1 sharkzilla1 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 3:35pm) in reply to delete21

    Id like to consider myself a "good grinder"

    Mainly I fold more often just because I'm always confused on what range individual players are pushing. I think we still have FE after folding which is key, and I usually prefer to go out being aggressive rather than calling my stack off.

    A good play would be pushing a wide range, but idk how wide a random is pushing in these which is why I tend to fold. Im kind of resaying what I said in the first post but i guess theres a little bit more into this one.
  12. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 3:39pm) in reply to sharkzilla1

    I see what you're saying shark, and I am definitley taking into account your thoughts on this. I really think this one could go either way, and I agree I'd rather be the aggressive one. This is a tricky spot
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  13. TheMayor TheMayor is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 4:04pm) in reply to delete21

    It's only a slight call against any two. Run the EV calc for your specific hand against the range of any two. It's probably marginal considering K2+ is the bottom of the range of call hands and K3 essentially is exactly the same as K2.

    So i'd fold. ICM doesn't account for your fold equity on your next hand, which you will have some of.
  14. BeesMoose BeesMoose is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 5:19pm) in reply to delete21

    lol being aggressive has nothing to do with this spot, next hand you'll have 3745 chips- an initial 600 u have to complete making your raise less than 3200 chips, ull have no fold equity.
  15. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 6:07pm) in reply to delete21

    For the record, most players at this level are shoving tighter than both of your ranges. I know because most of my students act like I'm nuts when I tell them they should be shoving a lot of hands here in their spot.... "Do I really want to give him an easy double up?" is what they ask me... remarkably most inexperienced players limp 89o, bad kings, and good queens here... and most of your opponents are inexperienced.

    I lean towards call because even though the math doesn't account for it, you are about to lose all or the majority of your fold equity and that makes a nice tiebreaker on the close decision.
  16. WhatsWildAgn WhatsWildAgn is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 6:37pm) in reply to Jennifear

    My sentiments exactly.
    Usually would be better to wait for a spot where you can add some fold equity to your hand and make it a clear favorite, but with the big stack to your left you're not going to have any FE left after folding this.
  17. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 6:50pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Ah thank you for clarification! I did call after tanking it, knowing I'd run it later in SNGPT, but it was still close as hell after. I think it's better to gamble it up here with a probable better hand, than to push without FE with a random one into the big stack. Thanks again
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  18. Popperhead Popperhead is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 7:05pm) in reply to delete21

    and..... how'd it go down ??
  19. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Sep 18th, 2007 (9/18/2007 7:33pm) in reply to Popperhead

    ? What do you mean ?
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