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  1. lind0 lind0 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 672
    Joined: Jan 06

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:08pm)

    Utg, 4 left, 50$ sng

    I think the big stack is calling a little too tight. I don't think the other 2 understand ICM at all, so I imagine they're just calling if they think they're ahead. Ship it all day? Or do you factor in that there's a shorter stack who will probably have to be all in before me and consider folding?

    pokerstars Game #27167918900: Tournament #156423092, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2009/04/16 18:56:00 ET
    Table '156423092 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 5: Lind0 (1985 in chips)
    Seat 6: aharant (1415 in chips)
    Seat 8: wizardwerdna (7590 in chips)
    Seat 9: dzbgobears (2510 in chips)
    Lind0: posts the ante 25
    aharant: posts the ante 25
    wizardwerdna: posts the ante 25
    dzbgobears: posts the ante 25
    wizardwerdna: posts small blind 200
    dzbgobears: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Lind0 [8s Ac]
  2. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
    United States

    Posts: 5,646
    Joined: May 07

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:10pm) in reply to lind0

    Ship all day unless you are playing just to cash.......even then it's a ship. With the BB coming the next hand it's time to shove while you still have some FE.
     
  3. Mig Mig is offline

    Mexico
    Mexico

    Posts: 89
    Joined: Nov 07

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:11pm) in reply to lind0

    Shove!

    You have Fold equity against the BB and the shortstack should tighten up. ez game /end thread.
  4. lind0 lind0 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 672
    Joined: Jan 06

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:14pm) in reply to mdshack14

    I'm playing to maximize profit. Obviously this is +ev in terms of chips, but is it +ev in terms of $$? Maybe the math nerds can help?
    Thread Starter
  5. Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 6,443
    Joined: Mar 09

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:15pm) in reply to lind0

    200-400... snap ship
  6. lind0 lind0 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 672
    Joined: Jan 06

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 7:17pm) in reply to Mig

    The short stacks shouldn't call me without a big hand, but I don't think they understood that. I think they would call A9o, KQs, 55-77 probably. Similar range for the big stack. None of them were playing anywhere close to optimal.

    Maybe I'm just overthinking this one. I shipped it. If someone wants to run the math, that would be sweet.

    I'd be interested to know where you draw the line in a spot like this. Like how short would the short stack have to be for me to consider folding A8 and giving up my fold equity? Or how much of a chip advantage/how many chips would I need to have so that it becomes correct to just fold? Thanks for the replies.
    Thread Starter
  7. MDG0RD0N MDG0RD0N is offline

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Dec 08

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 9:08pm) in reply to lind0

    I'm assuming it's a 50/30/20 payout. If so, even with 4600 chips this is still a marginal ship.

    ICM Nash Calculator Results

    As for the current scenario, this is a ship all day. The shortie shouldn't be calling you off with 55-77, A9, KQs, but the BB pretty much can, and the big stack can call you off with that too.

    ICM Nash Calculator Results

    With a 1k stack, it would be -EV to ship A8, assuming everyone was playing optimally. However, we also have to take into consideration that Nash doesn't account for the approaching blinds, it assumes we're picking jellybeans out of a jar to determine the winners after this hand.

    ICM Nash Calculator Results
  8. epicatc epicatc is offline

    New York City, NY
    United States

    Posts: 1,704
    Joined: Apr 05

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 9:40pm) in reply to MDG0RD0N

    Raise to 1984 and fold to a shove. Or, yknow, push.
  9. stevem1267 stevem1267 is offline

    Milton, MA
    United States

    Posts: 3,711
    Joined: Jun 07

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 10:06pm) in reply to lind0

    ez shove
  10. OfxAxRevolution OfxAxRevolution is offline

    Shelton, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,113
    Joined: Jun 07

    Apr 16th, 2009 (4/16/2009 10:15pm) in reply to lind0

     
    Originally Posted by lind0 View Post

    Utg, 4 left, 50$ sng

    I think the big stack is calling a little too tight. I don't think the other 2 understand ICM at all, so I imagine they're just calling if they think they're ahead. Ship it all day? Or do you factor in that there's a shorter stack who will probably have to be all in before me and consider folding?

    pokerstars Game #27167918900: Tournament #156423092, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2009/04/16 18:56:00 ET
    Table '156423092 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 5: Lind0 (1985 in chips)
    Seat 6: aharant (1415 in chips)
    Seat 8: wizardwerdna (7590 in chips)
    Seat 9: dzbgobears (2510 in chips)
    Lind0: posts the ante 25
    aharant: posts the ante 25
    wizardwerdna: posts the ante 25
    dzbgobears: posts the ante 25
    wizardwerdna: posts small blind 200
    dzbgobears: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Lind0 [8s Ac]

    obv brag about being dealt A8os with 5bb's left

    Also: obv brag in your profile about being able to play on PokerRoom
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