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SNG Bubble spot PUSH or Fold Help Jennifear!!!

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  1. Flex Wheeler Flex Wheeler is offline

    Elmore, OH
    United States

    Posts: 9
    Joined: Jun 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 9:47am)

    pokerstars Game #18860242767: Tournament #95970498, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2008/07/16 - 09:37:38 (ET)
    Table '95970498 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 2: ashmadden (3360 in chips)
    Seat 3: CSI1954 (2130 in chips)
    Seat 4: pokhub (11300 in chips)
    Seat 5: Frank87p (6480 in chips)
    Seat 7: Flex Wheeler (1710 in chips)
    Seat 8: aussiewhitey (15520 in chips)
    ashmadden: posts the ante 50
    CSI1954: posts the ante 50
    pokhub: posts the ante 50
    Frank87p: posts the ante 50
    Flex Wheeler: posts the ante 50
    aussiewhitey: posts the ante 50
    aussiewhitey: posts small blind 300
    ashmadden: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Flex Wheeler [5h 5s]
    CSI1954: folds
    pokhub: folds
    Frank87p: folds
    Flex Wheeler: raises 1060 to 1660 and is all-in
    aussiewhitey: calls 1360
    ashmadden: calls 1060
    *** FLOP *** [9h 8s Jd]
    aussiewhitey: checks
    ashmadden: checks
    *** TURN *** [9h 8s Jd] [2s]
    aussiewhitey: checks
    ashmadden: checks
    *** RIVER *** [9h 8s Jd 2s] [7c]
    aussiewhitey: bets 600
    ashmadden: folds
    Uncalled bet (600) returned to aussiewhitey
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    aussiewhitey: shows [Ac Td] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
    Flex Wheeler: shows [5h 5s] (a pair of Fives)
    aussiewhitey collected 5280 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 5280 | Rake 0
    Board [9h 8s Jd 2s 7c]
    Seat 2: ashmadden (big blind) folded on the River
    Seat 3: CSI1954 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: pokhub folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Frank87p folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: Flex Wheeler (button) showed [5h 5s] and lost with a pair of Fives
    Seat 8: aussiewhitey (small blind) showed [Ac Td] and won (5280) with a straight, Seven to Jack
  2. Kajun Kajun is offline

    United States

    Posts: 5,485
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 9:49am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    uhm, you got < 3 bbs and a pocket pair in an un-opened pot on the button... shove like anything there...
  3. darkknyt darkknyt is offline

    Fenton, MO
    United States

    Posts: 952
    Joined: Sep 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 9:50am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    Standard as short stack with less than 3 bbs. If there was a shorter stack than you with the blinds coming up on them, you could fold. Otherwise, bl.
  4. Phi Phi is offline aka tennisee

    Posts: 16,250
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 9:52am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    very very very very very very very very very very very very

    ......standard
  5. Flex Wheeler Flex Wheeler is offline

    Elmore, OH
    United States

    Posts: 9
    Joined: Jun 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 10:03am) in reply to Phi

    Thanks for the advice it just seems like i have a higher probability to get in the money if i fold with such a vulnerable holding b/c A) two players could tangle if they both pick up a hand and B) i could pick up a hand that is more likely not a coin flip hand plus my push is highly likely to get called my bb who knows he has a chance to place by taking me out just my thoughts on it
    Thread Starter
  6. HiFi HiFi is offline

    Alexandria, VA
    United States

    Posts: 281
    Joined: Dec 07

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 10:15am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

     
    Originally Posted by Flex Wheeler View Post

    Thanks for the advice it just seems like i have a higher probability to get in the money if i fold with such a vulnerable holding b/c A) two players could tangle if they both pick up a hand and B) i could pick up a hand that is more likely not a coin flip hand plus my push is highly likely to get called my bb who knows he has a chance to place by taking me out just my thoughts on it

    a) This might be true, but with >3 bbs, you simply don't have the time to wait for that to happen.

    b) see a.

    c) While it's correct to assume that your push is getting called from the blinds very, very, very light, you still can't fold any pocket pair here when it's folded to you. I'd happily shove in that spot and take the coin flip allllll day.
  7. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 10:16am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    This is a standard push with any PP. It is nearly never correct to fold a pocket pair from the button in an unopened pot.

    Assuming this is a 27-man SNG, and this is the bubble, this is not an "any two from the button just to stay alive" spot. You can push approximately:

    18.6%, 22+ A7s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ K9s+ KJo+ Q9s+ QJo J9s+ T9s 98s

    Maybe more if the BB might fold. Many people in the BB's spot will make incorrect folds because you can dent their stack considerably. If the BB is that type of player, you can shove even more hands.

    What I'd be most concerned about is that you have a 2.6 BB stack in the first place. That fact, plus one answer that you gave in response to another poster tells me that you are likely not shoving often enough leading up to this hand.

    As far as laying back and hoping the others tangle, just remember that 5th isn't the only money finish. A push helps you take a look at the 1-4 spots.

    Be fast, but be first.

    Hope that helps!
  8. Autolobotomist Autolobotomist is offline playing air is my style? so what

    Tempe, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 10,067
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 10:23am) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    I fkn stink and I know to shove that.
  9. Flex Wheeler Flex Wheeler is offline

    Elmore, OH
    United States

    Posts: 9
    Joined: Jun 06

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 11:16am) in reply to Jennifear

    Thanks for Replying Very Helpful Would you shove in this spot? I used to fall victim to not tangling with the aggres chip leader till after the money but I have taken more risks and now play for first but that leads to bubbling or finishing real high in the money which seems to be better profit in the long run? would you agree? I often find that a chip leader will raise any 2 and keep doubling up the lowstacks while i fold a marginal hand that would have won and then eventually i become low stack and run out of options is this the standard experience? Thanks Again

    pokerstars Game #18860149021: Tournament #95970498, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2008/07/16 - 09:30:34 (ET)
    Table '95970498 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 2: ashmadden (2920 in chips)
    Seat 3: CSI1954 (1315 in chips)
    Seat 4: pokhub (7330 in chips)
    Seat 5: Frank87p (1070 in chips)
    Seat 6: vallodruid60 (9055 in chips)
    Seat 7: Flex Wheeler (2585 in chips)
    Seat 8: aussiewhitey (16225 in chips)
    ashmadden: posts the ante 25
    CSI1954: posts the ante 25
    pokhub: posts the ante 25
    Frank87p: posts the ante 25
    vallodruid60: posts the ante 25
    Flex Wheeler: posts the ante 25
    aussiewhitey: posts the ante 25
    Frank87p: posts small blind 200
    vallodruid60: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Flex Wheeler [7h As]
    Flex Wheeler: folds
    aussiewhitey: folds
    ashmadden: folds
    CSI1954: folds
    pokhub: folds
    Frank87p: raises 645 to 1045 and is all-in
    vallodruid60: calls 645
    *** FLOP *** [Js 2c 8d]
    *** TURN *** [Js 2c 8d] [Ad]
    *** RIVER *** [Js 2c 8d Ad] [6c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Frank87p: shows [6s 4s] (a pair of Sixes)
    vallodruid60: shows [7d 9s] (high card Ace)
    Frank87p collected 2265 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2265 | Rake 0
    Board [Js 2c 8d Ad 6c]
    Seat 2: ashmadden folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: CSI1954 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: pokhub (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Frank87p (small blind) showed [6s 4s] and won (2265) with a pair of Sixes
    Seat 6: vallodruid60 (big blind) showed [7d 9s] and lost with high card Ace
    Seat 7: Flex Wheeler folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: aussiewhitey folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Thread Starter
  10. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jul 16th, 2008 (7/16/2008 11:51pm) in reply to Flex Wheeler

    flex- in your second hand i would shove A8s or ATo, but not A7o.
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