At what level of SNG's do you start to see a decrease in bad play?

It never ends. As you go up in levels, it gets a little bit better, but you'd be horrified, had you seen the things I have.

what levels are you playing?

Ive been seeing it in the non-turbo steps :(

To the OP, you dont want to see an increase in play, and basically anything under $60 is pretty bad imo

I agree with Sharkzilla. Play under the $60 games is horrendous (although there are significantly more regulars now). Once you get to the $60s, you'll see a ton of regulars, more variance, and generally much better play, especially later on. That's not to say $60s on up are lacking fish, because there are still plenty

 

Originally Posted by RagTopDoc

Thanks for asking the question, I look forward to hearing other's answer.

I'd like to add to this: is it just me or is the play getting worse in the last 3-6 months? I use to think the $25 level was decent play but recently think I am seeing such poor play, but maybe it's just me? For example, people calling off 80%+ of their stacks with 4 or 5 players left with any A or with 22, 33? I haven't run the numbers with one of the SNG tools, but I'm confident people are making horrendous calls these days.

Anyone else seeing this? Is there a new training site that's giving this advice? Am I playing wrong?

I have seen the same pattern as you, the interesting this is you describe it as "play getting worse", whereas I see it as the normal constant shifting in playing style that occurs in poker. By that, I mean that I am probably one of those that has started to make some of the light calls because I see that more and more players are willing to push any two cards. I got blasted from the rail in one last night where I called a push with A-7 for 80% of my stack and caught the guy pushing 7-2. He said my call was the worst he had ever seen - I assured him that I had made worse. A little later, in SB (no callers), I raised with A-6 and called the shove from the BB, he turned over 6-4 off. Again got blasted. But I have been playing this game for 25 years (yes I'm old) and it is a constantly shifting game as far as how your average opponent plays the game. LAG has become the mantra of so many players these days (many of whom do not really know what it means), that you have to pick your spots and make a stand.

So, I have just accepted the fact that the currently popular playing style by other players is so over the top aggressive that you have to be willing to make some of these marginal calls (provided the right circumstances and reads of course). It certainly can make for a bit of a roller coaster ride and when you are wrong you can look really stupid, but you can't afford to sit back and let every push move you off your non-premium hands.

 

Originally Posted by Jennifear

Unfortunately, there's a decrease in bad play at every level increase.

=(

 

Originally Posted by Wein

while we're on the topic of SnG grinders... have you ever seen what I'm experiencing right now in my step sng? There's still 8 people left and blinds just hit 200/400.

I had 9 left at the beginning of this level in a cash one 2 nights ago. But it was because no one (besides me) was aggressive enough... either limp/fold to all-in with like 10BBs or just fold to under a BB hoping to cash.

 

Originally Posted by BigJimWinter

 

Originally Posted by RagTopDoc

Thanks for asking the question, I look forward to hearing other's answer.

I'd like to add to this: is it just me or is the play getting worse in the last 3-6 months? I use to think the $25 level was decent play but recently think I am seeing such poor play, but maybe it's just me? For example, people calling off 80%+ of their stacks with 4 or 5 players left with any A or with 22, 33? I haven't run the numbers with one of the SNG tools, but I'm confident people are making horrendous calls these days.

Anyone else seeing this? Is there a new training site that's giving this advice? Am I playing wrong?

I have seen the same pattern as you, the interesting this is you describe it as "play getting worse", whereas I see it as the normal constant shifting in playing style that occurs in poker. By that, I mean that I am probably one of those that has started to make some of the light calls because I see that more and more players are willing to push any two cards. I got blasted from the rail in one last night where I called a push with A-7 for 80% of my stack and caught the guy pushing 7-2. He said my call was the worst he had ever seen - I assured him that I had made worse. A little later, in SB (no callers), I raised with A-6 and called the shove from the BB, he turned over 6-4 off. Again got blasted. But I have been playing this game for 25 years (yes I'm old) and it is a constantly shifting game as far as how your average opponent plays the game. LAG has become the mantra of so many players these days (many of whom do not really know what it means), that you have to pick your spots and make a stand.

So, I have just accepted the fact that the currently popular playing style by other players is so over the top aggressive that you have to be willing to make some of these marginal calls (provided the right circumstances and reads of course). It certainly can make for a bit of a roller coaster ride and when you are wrong you can look really stupid, but you can't afford to sit back and let every push move you off your non-premium hands.

Good point Jim. I'm also old... but haven't played that long. Guess it's time to rethink my strategy a bit. Good luck to you.

Good Point, made the post after my Q's were cracked pre by k-10, J's pre by k-9, and A-K out ran by 5-7D's on a straight flush preflop. A little fustrated

Full Tilt Poker Game #7365314630: $55 + $5 Sit & Go (Turbo) (56004386), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:52:04 ET - 2008/07/25
Seat 1: velosity64 (3,000)
Seat 2: ballerholic40 (2,240)
Seat 4: Jesse11288 (1,750)
Seat 5: andressoprano (1,940)
Seat 7: MAGARITA (3,190)
Seat 9: joey5254 (1,380)
andressoprano posts the small blind of 120
MAGARITA posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andressoprano [Kc Kd]
joey5254 calls 240<---Limps UTG with less than 5 BB's
velosity64 folds
ballerholic40 folds
Jesse11288 folds
andressoprano raises to 960<---I raise pot
MAGARITA folds
ballerholic40: OBV MONSTER there<---We have an idiot at the table
joey5254 calls 720<----Flats with 420 behind. WTF??????
*** FLOP *** [9h Qs 9s]
andressoprano bets 980, and is all in<---Shove
joey5254 folds<----- Saving for the winter
Uncalled bet of 980 returned to andressoprano
andressoprano mucks
andressoprano wins the pot (2,160)
The blinds are now 150/300
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,160 | Rake 0
Board: [9h Qs 9s]
Seat 1: velosity64 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ballerholic40 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Jesse11288 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: andressoprano (small blind) collected (2,160), mucked
Seat 7: MAGARITA (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: joey5254 folded on the Flop

Like this, every day, every tourney.

Of course there are some good players. The level is better than in a 20$, but only because there's 1 or 2 more regulars in the game. The bad player is as bad in a 5$ than in a 100$. This is the second awful hand I post in this thread. If I had the patience to go thru more hands, I'd find jewels.

 

Originally Posted by andressoprano

Full Tilt Poker Game #7365314630: $55 + $5 Sit & Go (Turbo) (56004386), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:52:04 ET - 2008/07/25
Seat 1: velosity64 (3,000)
Seat 2: ballerholic40 (2,240)
Seat 4: Jesse11288 (1,750)
Seat 5: andressoprano (1,940)
Seat 7: MAGARITA (3,190)
Seat 9: joey5254 (1,380)
andressoprano posts the small blind of 120
MAGARITA posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andressoprano [Kc Kd]
joey5254 calls 240<---Limps UTG with less than 5 BB's
velosity64 folds
ballerholic40 folds
Jesse11288 folds
andressoprano raises to 960<---I raise pot
MAGARITA folds
ballerholic40: OBV MONSTER there<---We have an idiot at the table
joey5254 calls 720<----Flats with 420 behind. WTF??????
*** FLOP *** [9h Qs 9s]
andressoprano bets 980, and is all in<---Shove
joey5254 folds<----- Saving for the winter
Uncalled bet of 980 returned to andressoprano
andressoprano mucks
andressoprano wins the pot (2,160)
The blinds are now 150/300
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,160 | Rake 0
Board: [9h Qs 9s]
Seat 1: velosity64 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ballerholic40 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Jesse11288 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: andressoprano (small blind) collected (2,160), mucked
Seat 7: MAGARITA (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: joey5254 folded on the Flop

Like this, every day, every tourney.

Of course there are some good players. The level is better than in a 20$, but only because there's 1 or 2 more regulars in the game. The bad player is as bad in a 5$ than in a 100$. This is the second awful hand I post in this thread. If I had the patience to go thru more hands, I'd find jewels.

jewelz722? he/she got me too!

up to $50, players really are bad. $100+, players are goot and variance is a beeeeyatch. say no more

 

Originally Posted by IbizaCF3

Sorry Andre but this first example is pretty miserable. All it shows is that you're willing to stack someone in early levels with AQ. If they wake up with AK this hand would never see the boards. What's with the completely retarded raise, leaving yourself a few chips behind but making it perfectly clear he only has to call 26 more? Why not just push to begin with.

Just dumb, imo.

Edit: And wow, how bout any PP in that situation? Can you never let go of AQo at 40/80?

It'd be awesome if people had a minimum idea of what are they talking about, before making a post that leaves them looking like they have absolutely no idea of what they said.

1st: Villain was raising every hand. This, I believe, is like the end of the second orbit. I had a pretty good read on him, which proved to be accurate.

2nd: I sharkscope'd villain, and saw his stats were pretty lame, so I was comfident I'd be able to play a HU hand with him, as a huge favorite ( which, indeed, happened ).

3rd: This is the part I love about your very well informed post: I, of course , commit myself to the pot once I raise, but VILLAIN HAS TO CALL 1280 CHIPS. It's not that HE made it 1500. His raise was to 240, and I raised to 1520. If I left a few chips behind it was because maybe I couldn't wait to make the 3 bet, therefore, I didn't put 100% of my chips on the pot. How it is that I didn't push to begin with? I shoved ( except for 26 chips ) as soon as I had the chance.

4th : It'd be nice if you were able to see hands beyond the fact that the blind level is 40-80. That is a meaningless fact. Once villain raises, there's 360 chips in the pot, I hold a hand that is WAY AHEAD his range, and the pot represents more than 20% of my stack. This is a shove 100% of the time. Besides that, if you can take advantage of a weak player, you have to do it ASAP.

5th : Maybe your ROI in sng's is due to the fact that you don't take +EV situations like the one presented here.

6th : I can let go AQ, AK, JJ, etc, WHEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES DICTATE THAT, not when a donk is leaving chips up for grabs.

7th : Your analisys is pretty dumb IMHO.

8th : Look at the hand again, and repeat to yourself: There is ABSOLUTELY no relationship between what the HH shows, and what I said.

Good nite

Full Tilt Poker Game #7348311046: $55 + $5 Sit & Go (Turbo) (55874082), Table 1 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:15:32 ET - 2008/07/23
Seat 1: andressoprano (1,585)
Seat 2: papeesh (1,240)
Seat 3: AllTheWay (1,825)
Seat 4: PSCPRODIGY (1,640)
Seat 5: slippywins (1,464)
Seat 6: dro87 (1,670)
Seat 7: mattym5 (1,320)
Seat 8: phish_hooks111 (1,210)
Seat 9: gibbyinwy (1,546)
gibbyinwy posts the small blind of 40
andressoprano posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andressoprano [Qd Ac]
papeesh folds
AllTheWay folds
PSCPRODIGY has 15 seconds left to act
PSCPRODIGY folds
slippywins folds
dro87 folds
mattym5 folds
phish_hooks111 folds
gibbyinwy raises to 240
andressoprano raises to 1,520
gibbyinwy raises to 1,546, and is all in
andressoprano calls 26
gibbyinwy shows [3s Kh]
andressoprano shows [Qd Ac]
*** FLOP *** [3h Jh 2s]
*** TURN *** [3h Jh 2s] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [3h Jh 2s 5c] [5s]
gibbyinwy shows two pair, Fives and Threes
andressoprano shows a pair of Fives
gibbyinwy wins the pot (3,092) with two pair, Fives and Threes
The blinds are now 50/100
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,092 | Rake 0
Board: [3h Jh 2s 5c 5s]
Seat 1: andressoprano (big blind) showed [Qd Ac] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 2: papeesh didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: AllTheWay didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: PSCPRODIGY didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: slippywins didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: dro87 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: mattym5 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: phish_hooks111 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: gibbyinwy (small blind) showed [3s Kh] and won (3,092) with two pair, Fives and Threes

depends which site you're playing sng's,,i think it varies. stars must have to worst sng games on the net though. I expect a decent game at $78 sngs but the play is usually awful.

pokerstars Game #19079786303: Tournament #97802849, $72+$6 Hold'em No
Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/07/24 - 22:39:21 (ET)
Table '97802849 1' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: CantWin@this (3495 in chips)
Seat 4: Junkman18 (4305 in chips)
Seat 5: cowhead72 (1200 in chips)
CantWin@this: posts small blind 100
Junkman18: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cowhead72 [As 6c]
cowhead72: raises 1000 to 1200 and is all-in
CantWin@this: folds
Junkman18: calls 1000
*** FLOP *** [Th Kc 2c]
*** TURN *** [Th Kc 2c] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [Th Kc 2c Td] [7c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Junkman18: shows [8h 4h] (a pair of Tens)
cowhead72: shows [As 6c] (a pair of Tens - Ace kicker)
cowhead72 collected 2500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2500 | Rake 0
Board [Th Kc 2c Td 7c]
Seat 1: CantWin@this (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Junkman18 (big blind) showed [8h 4h] and lost with a pair of
Tens
Seat 5: cowhead72 (button) showed [As 6c] and won (2500) with a pair of
Tens

where do these people come from?