"This is against the T&C of FullTilt Poker and because of this violation I am going to have my red pro status suspended for one month" <SPAN>

HAHAHAHAHAHA what a fucking joke.

Anyone else and we are banned for life.

</SPAN>

this is the 2nd time he has taken a month suspension and what not. they jsut canned j little when he cheated their rules. the diff is that townsend stole from other players so ftp doesnt care, and jlittle stole from ftp so they care. such double standards, this is why the whole industry needs regulated

There was an article on ESPN about the Brians (Hastings and Townsend) and Hasting's success against isuldur1. And in it, they basically confess to datamining to gain an advantage on isuldur1, which was (at least in part) responsible for the millions they took off him.

In breaking the rules - they "stole" millions off a player. How can a month's suspension be enough of a punishment.

 

Originally Posted by JoGentleman

Sharing HHs is against policy, that's 4 sure. But if I would have been in his shoes, I would have done the exact same thing....

I thought this deserved saving.

I find it rather disgusting. But then again what should one expect from a person who gets on a public forum and declares that he will cheat when given the opportunity?

JoGentleman goes on my scumbag list. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Originally Posted by GoldenDomer9

So you're openly admitting that you would cheat and ignore the site's TOS? Datamining is not allowed, sir. As for the other points, I'm not sure why you're defending them. Discussing hands, etc. is certainly not the point of this post, nor is it what he got in trouble for.

Quite frankly, this is extremely upsetting and disappointing. It's clear that Townsend just doesn't care, yet because he's a "superstar", it doesn't matter that he doesn't have ethics/morals; however, if a $25NL player like myself did the same, it would be peace out for me on Full Tilt (as it should).

This action, coming not that long after his multi-account episode, leaves me with zero respect for him, which is too bad, he seems to be a hard-working player.

"Datamining is not allowed, sir."

Question - When we post a hand in the hand advice forum without concealing the other players ID's, can that be considered datamining if other players share in the discussion. Should we be editing out other players Screenies? I don't want to get myself banned or put in the penalty box for asking for hand advice.
Comments please.

I really don't like the idea of sharing hands that include mucked hands vs an opponent.. especially 20k of them thats an unfair advantage imo

sharing "viewer" hands are ok imo just because anyone that was watching the table would have that info.
I don't know how I would handle this if I was ftp though.. is this really severe enough to give the 4mill back and perm ban? Im not sure.. but I dont know a warning and 1mo w/o your $35hr is severe enough either

could someone explain what datamining is, sorry not picking up on it. thanks

Wow,the responses to this post are quite interesting. I think there are two different issues being debated here , that havn't quite been differentiated. On the one hand everyone seems to be pretty pissed at the evident double standard concerning BTs punishment,the other being that datamining is unethical. We all know that if we got caught in violation of any given rules it would ultimately lead to our life ban,funds seized,...and of course ,if any of us were fortunate enough to have a red name deal that would be long gone.
But then again we dont own the largest poker training site,and have symbiotic deals that intertwine deep into the financial roots of FTP. Obviously this is about money and FTP is not about to sacrifice the exposure, and new clients it recieves from CR by setting an example as they did with J Little. And therefore BT just gets a slap on the wrist.
Now for the more interesting aspect of this debate. Are you so against datamining because FTP says it against there policies? or do you actually in your own heart think its unethical? Why is it only okay for me to have have stats on you, only for hands that we have played together?
You played your hands publicly for anyone whos watching to see ,and record. The game is becoming ever increasingly hard to play ,and any edge an opponent can gain on you is fair,you need to counter this by using the same information against your opponent(since you obviously feel it gives an unfair edge). As our technology becomes more advanced this is just going to be a standard weapon used by winning players, that can actually interpret the information and use it aginst you. This seems like a violation of my rights to use any information i can obtain to beat you, whats next HUD and PT being outlawed?

 

Originally Posted by GoldenDomer9

You do realize that datamining means you aren't even involved in the hand, right? To me, if I play a tournament and tape all my hands, I can show that to whoever the hell I want to. When datamining, you unfairly accumulate knowledge against an opponent that has never played against you.

You see the difference, right?

Yes, I do. So, I accumulate all of my hands from a tourney on my PT database and then I take one single hand history and without concealing screenies, I post that HH on the HA Forum. I can show it to anyone I like, hmmm, that may be the case if I am showing them my PT database HH playback, but once it is posted and someone else who was not involved in the hand has access to it, isn't that "Sharing HH with a friend?" and a clear violation of the FTP T&C ?

Also, it is my understanding that it is prohibited to share PT database and/or HHs with other PT databases?
I am not trying to be dense, I am just trying to suss out the legalize of it all.

It is clearly a violation if I gather "A" players HH and "B" players HH of hands that I was not involved in, compile them and use them to develop counter strategies against "C" Player.

When I post HH of hands I was personally involved in with Player C, and then Player A and Player B compile data from my posted HH and use it against Player C isn't that also a violation?

Thanks for bearing with me.

Just goes to show ya that when money is involved, cheating and breaking the rules to get an advantage is common. If it's going on at the high stakes games, imagine how many low stakes sng's you're playing where 2-3 people are colluding. I doubt the sites could stop a couple of players talking to each other on cell phones while playing a sng together.

 

Originally Posted by GoldenDomer9

So you're openly admitting that you would cheat and ignore the site's TOS? Datamining is not allowed, sir. As for the other points, I'm not sure why you're defending them. Discussing hands, etc. is certainly not the point of this post, nor is it what he got in trouble for.

Quite frankly, this is extremely upsetting and disappointing. It's clear that Townsend just doesn't care, yet because he's a "superstar", it doesn't matter that he doesn't have ethics/morals; however, if a $25NL player like myself did the same, it would be peace out for me on Full Tilt (as it should).

This action, coming not that long after his multi-account episode, leaves me with zero respect for him, which is too bad, he seems to be a hard-working player.

If I see a guy winning $5M within 2 days I would become obsessed about his play and want to study in super bad. If the players he won it against are my close friends then yeah.. I would get there HHs and study like hell before even considering to play against him.

That's one thing about the internet. This is so easily possible and is done ALL THE TIME.. i'm sure there are plenty of mid stakes grinder that get HHs. They are even sold by PTR.

If it is correct what he did. No because it is against the rules. If I would have done the same if I had the option and was going to play an opponent like iSilDur1, Yeah I probably would have (good I only play tourneys.)....

 

Originally Posted by DeaconMike

Just goes to show ya that when money is involved, cheating and breakingthe rules to get an advantage is common. If it's going on at the highstakes games, imagine how many low stakes sng's you're playing where2-3 people are colluding. I doubt the sites could stop a couple ofplayers talking to each other on cell phones while playing a sngtogether.

there was no colluding

 

Originally Posted by GINS FINEST

how did players not lose $ when high stakes sng regs played on j. little acct? there obv better than little at sngs , there opponets def lost quity/ they ddint kno who the fuck they were playing

Little was responsible for the upswing in my graph (him leaving is responsible for my downswing, lol), whomever was playing on his account was playing pretty spewy, wasn't too surprised when I found out it probably wasn't him playing.

I'm a bit confused. The pokerdb, OPR, tableratings, sharkscope and other similar sites get their information in some form of datamining. The poker sites were totally against such sites not long ago (and maybe still). So if you've ever utilized any of those sites to gather information on your opponents, you are guilty of violating FTP's TOS the way I read it. Am I wrong?

 

Originally Posted by Special_K

I'm a bit confused. The pokerdb, OPR, tableratings, sharkscope and other similar sites get their information in some form of datamining. The poker sites were totally against such sites not long ago (and maybe still). So if you've ever utilized any of those sites to gather information on your opponents, you are guilty of violating FTP's TOS the way I read it. Am I wrong?

kinda
when they talk about data mining, they are specifically referring to obtaining hand histories for the purposes of analysis of play.

Also I think your only guilty of violating the TOS if you are stupid enough to admit your data mining.