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Someone tell me if pokerstars is correct here?

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  1. foolishgolf foolishgolf is offline

    United States

    Posts: 182
    Joined: Jul 07

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 5:00am)

    I played a couple of 4 man heads up on PS and found out 2 of the players were colluding. Basically if they played each other they would just go all in the first hand and the one would move to the next round. If not they would play each opponite and then if they both won they would just go all in heads up and split the profits. To me this is colluding. Dont they have a slight advantage doing this? This is what PS had to say.

    Thank you for your report regarding players who play as teams in Heads-Up
    Sit & Gos. This is understandably concerning many players, as generally any
    team work in poker is strictly prohibited and unfair to others.
    These particular tournaments however, are the exception. In Heads-Up
    knockout tournaments, there is no way for players to gain any equity
    advantage by playing as a team. To understand why this is so, we need to
    look at the two significant attributes of these tournaments: Heads-Up play
    and Knockout structure tournaments.
    Heads-Up Play:
    This aspect is quite easy to understand. When playing Heads-Up you have only
    one opponent involved in all your hands. There are no opportunities for hole
    card sharing, squeeze play, pot building, whipsawing, stack balancing or any
    of the other tactics which colluders can employ at a multi-handed table.
    Knockout Structure:
    The knockout structure of our heads up tournaments is the same you would
    find in any Grand Slam Tennis event or NCAA basketball tournament. Unlike a
    round robin, or other tournament formats, every match is equally valuable to
    both players competing. This attribute eliminates any potential conflict of
    interest or incentive for a cooperative strategy. To illustrate this,
    included below is an equity breakdown of the possible team strategies that
    can be employed in a typical $5 buy-in 4-man Heads Up Sit&Go tournament
    (ignoring rake).
    1. Two players (A and B) playing as a team enter and are drawn in the same
    opening match.
    In this case, the team is guaranteed to have 1, and only 1, player in the
    final. Having 1 player in the final is worth $10 (1 in 2 chance of winning
    $20).
    This strategy is equivalent to the team just entering a single $10 HU match.
    Total team entry cost: $10
    Total team equity: $10

    2. Two players (A and B) playing as a team enter and are drawn in separate
    opening matches.
    The team has 4 possible outcomes from the first round:
    A wins B wins
    A wins B loses
    A loses B wins
    A loses B loses
    The team has a 1 in 4 chance of having both players progressing, at which
    point they are guaranteed the first place prize money of $20.
    Equity: 25% x $20 = $5
    The team has a 2 in 4 chance of having just one player progressing to the
    final. Having 1 player in the final is worth $10 (1 in 2 chance of winning $20).
    Equity: 50% x $10= $5
    The team has a 1 in 4 chance of having no players make the final. Having no
    players make the final is worth $0.
    Equity: 25% x $0 = $0
    Total team entry cost: $10
    Total team equity: $10 ($5 + $5 + $0)

    3. Three players (A, B and C) playing as a team enter. Obviously, two of
    them will be drawn in the same starting match (A and B), giving them a
    guaranteed seat in the final. The third (C) will be in a starting match with
    another opponent.
    The team has 2 possible outcomes from the first round:
    C wins
    C loses
    The team has a 1 in 2 chance of having both seats in the final, at which
    point they are guaranteed the first place prize money of $20.
    Equity: 50% x $20 = $10
    The team has a 1 in 2 chance of having just one seat in the final. Having 1
    player in the final is worth $10 (1 in 2 chance of winning $20).
    Equity: 50% x $10 = $5
    Total team entry cost: $15
    Total team equity: $15
    This equality of total entry cost and total equity extends to any
    strategy, of any number of players in any sized Heads-Up Tournament with a
    knockout structure. A team could enter 127 players in a 128 player
    tournament and their equity would be exactly equal to their entry cost, no
    matter how they were drawn.
    We hope this explains our reasoning for not prohibiting the practice of
    playing Heads-Up knock out tournaments in teams. If you have any further
    questions, please let us know.
    Regards,
  2. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

    Costa Mesa, CA
    United States

    Posts: 5,045
    Joined: Jun 08

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 5:07am) in reply to foolishgolf

    been over this before, its not cheating.
    cant cheat in a HU tourny
     
  3. Slingtownorbust Slingtownorbust is offline

    Naklo Nad Notecia
    Poland

    Posts: 1,525
    Joined: May 09

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 5:23am) in reply to Deoxyribo

    wtf is whipsawing??????
  4. byoonz byoonz is offline

    Torrance, CA
    United States

    Posts: 677
    Joined: Jul 09

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 5:31am) in reply to Slingtownorbust

     
    Originally Posted by Slingtownorbust View Post

    wtf is whipsawing??????

    squeezing and resqueezing while working together to take the flatter's money cause he'll probably fold, iirc

    or doing it to inflate pots
     
  5. RumorOfWar RumorOfWar is offline

    Posts: 30
    Joined: Mar 10

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 5:51am) in reply to byoonz

    I don't know.. it sounds kind of annoying to me... But the question really becomes, why?

    If you are going to do this why wouldn't you just play a single heads up match? In this situation you aren't ending up any better.

    4 players - 4 buyins
    2 colluders - 2 buyins

    under EVERY scenario possible the most they can win is 1 buyin each... the same as a regular sit n go

    I don't really see how it benefits them to cheat in these
  6. in4games in4games is offline

    Sanford, ME
    United States

    Posts: 601
    Joined: Jul 07

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 6:15am) in reply to RumorOfWar

    Not cheating it doesnt put YOU as there opponent in a disadvantage. It's been talked about alot for awhile use search feature
     
  7. mhoddi mhoddi is offline

    Western Sahara

    Posts: 11,715
    Joined: Feb 05

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 6:20am) in reply to foolishgolf

    You're only playing against 1 of them, not both. Just because they do this changes absolutely nothing about your thought process or how you play in your match. How is this a disadvantage to you? If they end up HU one has to win anyway... why does it matter if they do it 1 hand or 60?
    Edited By: mhoddi Jul 11th, 2010 at 06:21 AM
     
  8. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 10:18am) in reply to mhoddi

    it's not cheating, it doesn't effect your equity in the game (other than the fact that your'e playing against two regs who are prolly good)

    the reason they do it is that it lowers variance
    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  9. Kiribato Kiribato is offline

    Lyon
    France

    Posts: 1,655
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jul 11th, 2010 (7/11/2010 11:32am) in reply to Gags30

    i think the only disadvantage is that you can't study your opponent's game since he is done after one hand but you have to still finish your own match and they get to watch you play, getting a read on you before the finals
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