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pokerstars Game #67474370629: Tournament #2011090028, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (100/200) - 2011/09/13 17:27:58 PT [2011/09/13 20:27:58 ET]
Edited By: frosty012 Sep 14th, 2011 at 02:16 AM
Table '2011090028 80' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: nicelife (5438 in chips)
Seat 2: HhCMotU (16477 in chips)
Seat 3: frosty012 (7055 in chips)
Seat 4: LocoSara (4105 in chips)
Seat 5: hotmark777 (12312 in chips)
Seat 6: mcnallyville (7613 in chips)
Seat 7: locomi (17948 in chips)
Seat 8: arxigos (10660 in chips)
Seat 9: Puropoker123 (9019 in chips)
nicelife: posts the ante 25
HhCMotU: posts the ante 25
frosty012: posts the ante 25
LocoSara: posts the ante 25
hotmark777: posts the ante 25
mcnallyville: posts the ante 25
locomi: posts the ante 25
arxigos: posts the ante 25
Puropoker123: posts the ante 25
frosty012: posts small blind 100
LocoSara: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to frosty012 [Qd Ad]
hotmark777: folds
mcnallyville: folds
locomi: folds
arxigos: raises 300 to 500
Puropoker123: folds
nicelife: folds
HhCMotU: folds
frosty012: raises ?
Hey guys, so my tournament game is super rusty right now as I've been playing cash games almost exclusively for the last 1.5 years. With this hand, I'm basically wondering whether a shove is super standard or not with 35 BB's or is it too much of an overshove? There's about 1k in the pot. Just got to the table so not many reads but he's a supernova so AQs has to be ahead of his opening range. Is 3bet folding ever really an option here? As played, I 3bet to 1250 and he called and put me in an awkward spot on the flop, which made me wish I had just shoved, which made me write up this post lol. Thoughts appreciated, even if it is "standard shove." THX! -
Posts: 775
Joined: Oct 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 2:22am) in reply to gar2garvin
Not a standard shove at all.
3betting someones 2.5 raise to 35 doesn't seem profitable... A shove here is going to get called by what? QQ+... And anything else you'd pick up a few bb's which is nice. Your 3bet was fine. Since you'll be playing OOP though if they call you could probably make it a little higher of a 3bet.
35 bb's is a ton of room to work with. -
Posts: 775
Joined: Oct 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 2:51am) in reply to gar2garvin
How many times is someone going to call you light? 3betting to 1250-1400 is going to keep around more marginal hands like AJ, 77+ and sometimes even weaker, that you can exploit on later streets.Originally Posted by gar2garvin
Disagree
It could be minimally profitable to shove 30+ bb's in spots like this, but a smaller 3bet is going to be the better option 90% of the time. -
Posts: 775
Joined: Oct 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 2:56am) in reply to gar2garvin
Gotcha. Carry on then. Optimal rather than profitable would have been a better choice of word by me.Originally Posted by gar2garvin
Didnt say it was optimal, read first post
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Yeah, I thought it was a bit of an overshove which is why I chose to 3bet in the first place...good advice on the sizing, I feel good about 3betting a bit bigger and calling a shove. thx boys!
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RedIceRap
Moderator
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Jun 10Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 3:42am) in reply to frosty012
this gotta be a level...................Originally Posted by frosty012
pokerstars Game #67474370629: Tournament #2011090028, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (100/200) - 2011/09/13 17:27:58 PT [2011/09/13 20:27:58 ET]
Table '2011090028 80' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: nicelife (5438 in chips)
Seat 2: HhCMotU (16477 in chips)
Seat 3: frosty012 (7055 in chips)
Seat 4: LocoSara (4105 in chips)
Seat 5: hotmark777 (12312 in chips)
Seat 6: mcnallyville (7613 in chips)
Seat 7: locomi (17948 in chips)
Seat 8: arxigos (10660 in chips)
Seat 9: Puropoker123 (9019 in chips)
nicelife: posts the ante 25
HhCMotU: posts the ante 25
frosty012: posts the ante 25
LocoSara: posts the ante 25
hotmark777: posts the ante 25
mcnallyville: posts the ante 25
locomi: posts the ante 25
arxigos: posts the ante 25
Puropoker123: posts the ante 25
frosty012: posts small blind 100
LocoSara: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to frosty012 [Qd Ad]
hotmark777: folds
mcnallyville: folds
locomi: folds
arxigos: raises 300 to 500
Puropoker123: folds
nicelife: folds
HhCMotU: folds
frosty012: raises ?
Hey guys, so my tournament game is super rusty right now as I've been playing cash games almost exclusively for the last 1.5 years. With this hand, I'm basically wondering whether a shove is super standard or not with 35 BB's or is it too much of an overshove? There's about 1k in the pot. Just got to the table so not many reads but he's a supernova so AQs has to be ahead of his opening range. Is 3bet folding ever really an option here? As played, I 3bet to 1250 and he called and put me in an awkward spot on the flop, which made me wish I had just shoved, which made me write up this post lol. Thoughts appreciated, even if it is "standard shove." THX!
i flat since stacks are too deep imo and im OOP and c/f on a bad flop -
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 11Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 6:00am) in reply to RedIceRap
i think flatting here is the best play with aq out of position, i dont see any need to play a large pot out of position against a supernova, if you 3 bet here it is a lot tougher to lay your hand down post flop with the amount of money already in the pot compared to your remaining stack. i think you should be controlling the pot size so you dont put yourself in a marginal situation. also by not 3 betting it conceals the strength of your hand and also he will put you on a much wider range.
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Posts: 1,184
Joined: Jan 10Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 6:04am) in reply to douglasfryan
personally I don't like a 3bet/call or fold and I don't like playing hands like these oop but I would def see a flop. This is simply because my image is a bit on the spewy side... if you have a very tight image (particularly 3betting) then I def like a 3bet and I don't mind your 3b sizing leaves room for a triple barrel and looks even stronger. With a tight 3b image you can def 3b/f... just doesn't work for me.
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Posts: 775
Joined: Oct 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 6:20am) in reply to iamthedeck ftw
If your image is a bit on the spewy side, then you would definitely want to 3bet here. There's a good chance you're well ahead of the openers range. And if the opener views you as "spewy" there's a good chance they'll 4bet light...Originally Posted by iamthedeck ftw
personally I don't like a 3bet/call or fold and I don't like playing hands like these oop but I would def see a flop. This is simply because my image is a bit on the spewy side... if you have a very tight image (particularly 3betting) then I def like a 3bet and I don't mind your 3b sizing leaves room for a triple barrel and looks even stronger. With a tight 3b image you can def 3b/f... just doesn't work for me.
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disagree
Originally Posted by douglasfryan
i think flatting here is the best play with aq out of position, i dont see any need to play a large pot out of position against a supernova, if you 3 bet here it is a lot tougher to lay your hand down post flop with the amount of money already in the pot compared to your remaining stack. i think you should be controlling the pot size so you dont put yourself in a marginal situation. also by not 3 betting it conceals the strength of your hand and also he will put you on a much wider range.
who wouldnt open in that position when its folded around opponent is likely to be very wide. -
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 11Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 7:03am) in reply to frizzlefry777
i think in his situation where he perceives the supernova as a superior player, why would he want to play a large pot out of position here at this point in the tournament, i think normally with my style of play i would 3bet here and cbet most flops but in his situation i think it would be a better play to flat and see a cheap flop, if he hits an a or q on the flop he is almost always ahead and can do a number of different things most of which involve him winning the pot, if he misses he can check/fold and lost only 1 bb and move on, id like if you elaborated a lil more on your position frizzle
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Posts: 775
Joined: Oct 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 7:21am) in reply to douglasfryan
The one key thing your missing is that he's going to pick up the blinds plus 2.5 raise quite often with a 3bet preflop against an open raiser who is probably opening fairly wide.Originally Posted by douglasfryan
i think in his situation where he perceives the supernova as a superior player, why would he want to play a large pot out of position here at this point in the tournament, i think normally with my style of play i would 3bet here and cbet most flops but in his situation i think it would be a better play to flat and see a cheap flop, if he hits an a or q on the flop he is almost always ahead and can do a number of different things most of which involve him winning the pot, if he misses he can check/fold and lost only 1 bb and move on, id like if you elaborated a lil more on your position frizzle
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With stacks that deep villain is likely to flat and simply take it down postflop in position, and i also dont think that a 3bet/call is profitable here since i rly dont think AJ or worse ever 4bets here, what makes it a flip at best case scenario. A bit too strong to fold so imo calling pre and "trapping" villain by checking if we hit is the best play imo cause we dont blow up the pot OOP and look weak at the same time. And its no shame to c/f if we miss. Btw it helps sometimes to look up supernovas, if theyre playing 20 tables theyre unlikely to double barrel bluff unless theyre real gangsta.
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Posts: 6,352
Joined: Feb 06Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 8:26am) in reply to RedIceRap
3b/calling is probably fine but with your image flatting is better
And in response to some of the random posts...we're not deep stacked, we have 35bbs post ante. And hero is a supernova elite cash grinder, I doubt he's "intimidated". -
RedIceRap
Moderator
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Jun 10Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 4:03pm) in reply to rivverkiller
Did u ever see some villain go broke in such a spot with AJ or worse preflop? In over 1 mil hands played in tourneys i rly didnt! At least not at this stage.
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RedIceRap
Moderator
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Jun 10Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 8:13pm) in reply to rivverkiller
If its moorman 3bet get in all day, w/o history if it works for u to 3b/c at this stage w aq then gratz sickos. I know how sick a 1k can be, but at bb200 u dont see much leveling. With history it cant be bad, but saying hes a SN so he does get fancy in that spot is just redic
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Posts: 441
Joined: Dec 07Sep 14th, 2011 (9/14/2011 11:26pm) in reply to leakinmoney
Thx for the discussion, I'll add a couple of things for to clarify some stuff:
1. I only mentioned the fact that villain is a Supernova because I had no reads on him, as I mentioned, and as a Supernova I would expect him to play enough to know to open a wide range of hands in that spot given his stack size. It has nothing to do with intimidation/getting outplayed-as a Supernova Elite myself, I'm freerolling most of the WCOOP anyways after trading in my main event ticket so I'm not afraid to bust! That said, I'm definitely not as comfortable playing tournies as I'd like and realize that I have no edge in $1k's whatsoever lol.
2. My image was pretty tight. I don't think that I had even put in a 3bet at the table yet, although I had only been there for a couple of orbits.
3. TBH I didn't really consider flatting oop. At the time I was hoping to just take down the 1k pot pre and thought flatting would be kinda spewy since I'd be c/f most flops but I guess with a tighter image calling is probably the right play since as people already mentioned, I'm not getting much if any action from worse.
Appreciate the replies -
Posts: 267
Joined: Feb 10Sep 15th, 2011 (9/15/2011 1:55am) in reply to RedIceRap
Btw it helps sometimes to look up supernovas, if theyre playing 20 tables theyre unlikely to double barrel bluff unless theyre real gangsta.[/QUOTE]
Cheeers for that never thought about that hopefully it comes up at 1 point and mibby helps me in a pot You learn something new everyday -
what i mean is that any regular player would be opening marginal hands in position so it would be profitable to reraise pre when u have a strong hand like aq suited or even with rags and will probably take it down right there more times than not, if u get 4 bet you can probly fold since you don't have a read on the opponent yet, if he flats your three bet u can bet the flop and take it down depending on the texture of the flop.
Originally Posted by douglasfryan
i think in his situation where he perceives the supernova as a superior player, why would he want to play a large pot out of position here at this point in the tournament, i think normally with my style of play i would 3bet here and cbet most flops but in his situation i think it would be a better play to flat and see a cheap flop, if he hits an a or q on the flop he is almost always ahead and can do a number of different things most of which involve him winning the pot, if he misses he can check/fold and lost only 1 bb and move on, id like if you elaborated a lil more on your position frizzle
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Posts: 2,763
Joined: May 07Sep 15th, 2011 (9/15/2011 5:44am) in reply to LiquidSw0rd
Ya 3b/call is fine and everyone knows it, but more importantly what is happening when you are in the tough spot like is mentioned where you 3b, villain flats, and you are playing a Tc7c3d flop w these stack sizes? How should you adjust preflop play? What is optimal post flop as played? How bad do I miss online poker?
Edited By: I Spew Chips Sep 15th, 2011 at 05:48 AM
Reason: Threw another Q in -
Posts: 694
Joined: Dec 06Sep 15th, 2011 (9/15/2011 10:59am) in reply to 88XIN88
if he's opening often enough i just 3 bet go making it a bit more than 1250 .. if u have a super tight image and he 4 bets u might be able to find a fold ... if i feel uncomfortable doing that i'll flat and smash the flop ... seems pretty simple
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4bet jamming seems a bit to much, haven't seen much calls with worse. Like to give him te oppeertunity to ship it instead of making him call it off..
Edited By: wackyJaxon Sep 15th, 2011 at 12:05 PM -
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 09Sep 15th, 2011 (9/15/2011 12:35pm) in reply to Biixx
-ill never 3b/f that strong of a hand in a 1k buy-in on-line in this spot. its full a maniacs that will jam two under cards once in a while.
-jamming is prolly ok but im really not a fan.
-flatting is fine obv.
-i think 3bet/calling our best option to get max value, and even if we get flatted OOP its not the end of the world and flopping the NFD in a 3bet pot might be fantastic !
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