Full Tilt Poker Game #20929382816: $1K Monday (157391673), Table 3 - 2000/4000 Ante 500 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:49:24 ET - 2010/05/18
Seat 1: pytcheye1111 (147,605)
Seat 2: JohnnyBax (344,030)
Seat 3: AJKHoosier1 (282,059)
Seat 4: ScarJo (127,068)
Seat 5: Guithome (35,479)
Seat 6: guinor (171,359)
Seat 7: dude904 (82,948)
Seat 8: stpauli111 (134,452)
pytcheye1111 antes 500
JohnnyBax antes 500
AJKHoosier1 antes 500
ScarJo antes 500
Guithome antes 500
guinor antes 500
dude904 antes 500
stpauli111 antes 500
AJKHoosier1 posts the small blind of 2,000
ScarJo posts the big blind of 4,000
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dude904 [7s 7c]
ScarJo: nh
Guithome folds
guinor folds
ScarJo is feeling normal
dude904

My image is TAG (i've played one pot so far since the ft started, and that was a limped pot where i completed the SB). Bax up to this point has pretty much been shitting on everyone. UTG has 9 bbs.

EDIT: bb in this hand defended against my open earlier in the tourney on a 15 bb stack w/Q10s.

i can see raise/folding, just open folding, and also shoving all as viable options, depends on the exact game flow at that moment...i kinda want to just open fold with the people behind you

muck

honestly i thought it was close between jam or fold

 

Originally Posted by siola

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

muck

lol?

R/F to everyone but the shorty... with your stack size people are very unlikely to be 3 betting you light because there is not a lot of fold equity if you 4 bet shove

Oh and LOLOLOL at muck

against a table this strong I think a shove is best, unless the pay jump from 8th to 7th is a huge deal for u, then fold. congrats on making such a sic ft btw.

I think shoving > folding > r/f > r/c

 

Originally Posted by SCTrojans

 

Originally Posted by dude904

raise/calling and raise/folding are both worse than openfolding. One is an ICM blunder and the other is turning our hand in this spot into a bluff, and we have no clue if we're going to get 3b light or not, even w/the tight image these players all rape enough to know that I can't call off wide here at all.

One thing I also forgot to mention is the BB in this hand defended his BB earlier in the tourney against me on a 15 bb stack with Q10s.

How are you turning your hand into a bluff when the big blind defended earlier with QT? Pretty sure your hand has value if players will be doing other than shoving or folding.

it's the final table. And, to be honest, I figured one of the guys would 3b me if I were to open before it got to the bb, so that's a last-case-scenario type thing

 

Originally Posted by Big Huni

Oh and LOLOLOL at muck

i don't play 1k's and i don't think of myself as better than you or siola but whateves here it goes

he has been tag and hasn't played a pot at the FT doesn't mean they have to be super strong or strong here at all. I mean really? ok dude904 avg buyin on tilt is 105$ which im guessing is drastically under everybody else at a nice final table with johnnybax, stpauli, AJK, and some other sicko regs im sure. There are times where they dont' have to be strong at all, thinking there is a good % of the time that this guy who is probably at a final table he has never been at...doesn't play the highest of the highest stakes is just gonna r/f here most of the time.

I mean seriously could u open your mind for once. but whatever just lol @ me i seriously don't care.

a r/f here is just an invitation to get raped imo. take it or leave it

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

i don't play 1k's and i don't think of myself as better than you or siola but whateves here it goes

he has been tag and hasn't played a pot at the FT doesn't mean they have to be super strong or strong here at all. I mean really? ok dude904 avg buyin on tilt is 105$ which im guessing is drastically under everybody else at a nice final table with johnnybax, stpauli, AJK, and some other sicko regs im sure. There are times where they dont' have to be strong at all, thinking there is a good % of the time that this guy who is probably at a final table he has never been at...doesn't play the highest of the highest stakes is just gonna r/f here most of the time.

I mean seriously could u open your mind for once. but whatever just lol @ me i seriously don't care.

a r/f here is just an invitation to get raped imo. take it or leave it

brags but this isnt my first 1k ft and ive been on a 100r ft recently and im like a regular on the 100c FT. I'm by no means scared money; whether they look at me that way or not I honestly don't know.

 

Originally Posted by the_dean22

w/ all the factors discussed, stack size, position, i don't know how someone could say that mucking is unfathomable or Lol...it seems to be just as viable an option as raise/folding or shoving

yea idk siola has it out for me and huni idk

like if ur a r/f all mid pairs and KQ type of hands...your gonna get raped im sorry

if you don't think one of those ppl at the table looks down at QTcc 109ss...spots he believes ur gonna r/f a good % and if not he will 3-bet/c and have good equity against most hands your r/c ing..your crazy

 

Originally Posted by the_dean22

w/ all the factors discussed, stack size, position, i don't know how someone could say that mucking is unfathomable or Lol...it seems to be just as viable an option as raise/folding or shoving

i think the only way you can argue that mucking is an option is if you believe that shoving is -EV. u cant be outplayed when you shove and im fairly confident that a shove here is +EV even if villians are calling optimally.

once you determine that a shove is +EV then its impossible to argue muck. in which case the only possible arguement is raising vs shoving

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

r/f or r/c?

so r/c is probably a bad idea when u take icm into account. as far a cEV r/c is probably way better than shove bc ur getting all the lower pps as well as other hands we are ahead of to shove instead of fold and we almost never get hands better than ours to fold either way. but considering it being a FT and ICM having a significant role, its prob a big leak to end up going to showdown vs hand like QTs where we are only a small favorite when ICM prob requires us to be a bigger favorite than we are. so therefore shove>r/c since we would fold out those hands

r/f is an interesting arguement though. on the one hand he has been super nitty since the FT started and with his stack size and the small stack almost being in the bb, theres a decent chance he gets alot of respect for his raise and only gets 3bet when behind. if thats the case then r/f>shove. but if we think that villians are going to be 3betting light anyways, then r/f is prob a pretty big leak with this stack size and then shove>r/f

I can't decide if his nitty image makes him more or less susceptible to a light 3 bet. On one hand, his raise has to be respected, on the other hand a potential 3 better could view him raise/folding often enough even with his tighter opening range to make a light 3 bet make sense. This cloudiness is why I like jamming it as opposed to raising and not knowing where you are at if 3 bet.

Also. I don't think open fold is terrible by any means, because clearly this isn't a cut and dry spot and when that's the case folding is never a bad option, in my opinion.

 

Originally Posted by siola

its true, i do *have it out for you* w my like, 200 posts, lol

313 got em

was half joking neways...b/c of that thread we disagreed bout few months ago. oi and oy tho