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Spot in 1k live buyin

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  1. yellowhat yellowhat is offline

    Paris
    France

    Posts: 314
    Joined: Aug 06

    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 9:09pm)

    History : vilain is a foreigner, looks in his thirties and I have the feeling he is a bit fishy but he's been kind of owning so far, made a fairly thin value river slight overshove earlier.

    Three relevant hands prior on hand in question :

    - he makes it 650 at 100/200/25 in the hijack with 20k stack, button who has him covered makes it 2250, he tanks and peels the flop, comes TJJ rainbow, he donks 3k, button tank/folds, vilain shows 99.

    - he makes it 550 mp for the first time (usually makes it 650); I have AQo otb, and make it 1650 to go (we both have 18-20kish), comes back to him, he asks me how much i got, and makes it 4650 fairly fast, I muck pretty fast, he shows QQ. (Do you guys usually flat there btw? I have the feeling I get 4bet more often then not and have to fold)

    - he limps from mp at 150/300/25, shorstack shoves 1300, vilain calls with AKo

    Then the hand comes up, not sure if it's same orbit or one later, he limp utg or utg+1, guy behind him limps, I raise QQ to 1350 from mp, it comes back to him, he asks to see my stack, and makes it 3300 fairly fast, I have 16kish behind he has me covered by like 4/5k.

    I start tanking, keeping in mind that my table is fairly spot, and that the tourney has a good structure (1 hour levels, a lot of levels) and a decent amount of weak players.

    After a while, he asks for the time, and looks pretty strong to me, fwiw I really have the feeling if I shove he's gonna snap AA, I can just feel it. I decided to muck.

    Thoughts? Is it horrible, any reason to flat?

    Edit : As my friend pointed out to me, I guess the hand isnt that interesting since it's super feel based, any replies still appreciated, maybe if you guys ran into spots like that irl before.
     
  2. beaviszach beaviszach is offline

    Redondo Beach, CA
    United States

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    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 9:26pm) in reply to yellowhat

    seems like a terrible fold
     
  3. hookey91 hookey91 is offline

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    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 9:26pm) in reply to yellowhat

    I would flat personally, no way i see myself folding QQ there.
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
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    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 9:30pm) in reply to yellowhat

    I don't think you can flat. Aren't you just turning your hand into a set-mine/bluffcatcher at that point?

    His re-raise is a LOT smaller than it was when he had QQ. Sure feels to me like he's begging you to shove...I think you made a good, disciplined fold.
     
  5. deckeriv deckeriv is offline

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    Joined: May 09

    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 10:43pm) in reply to yellowhat

    Raise to $7,200 and call a shove. He obviously understands the 3bet/4bet game, see if he likes to be 4bet....
  6. beaviszach beaviszach is offline

    Redondo Beach, CA
    United States

    Posts: 279
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    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 11:02pm) in reply to grapsfan

    i think you can definitely flat here but not as a set mine. i feel like it's way too exploitable/weak to fold QQ here to a semi active player with a single three bet. i really see no value in 4 betting here (unless you're 4 bet shoving) because it looks too strong to 4b to like 7200 (and call shove) and you may lose action from hands you could potentially get value from (JJ and AQ in particular).

    i would probably flat his 3b as a trap and get it in on most flops depending on flop/action.

    thoughts?
     
  7. elusively elusively is offline

    MD
    United States

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    Jan 16th, 2010 (1/16/2010 11:05pm) in reply to deckeriv

    Ugh.. it fucks you up that he limp/called w/ AK earlier b/c we need that to be a huge part of his limp/raising range to make playing QQ profitable here IMO.

    I guess just fold and don't think too much more about it. You're a good player and going to find a ton of better/more obvious spots to pwn these clowns--if he out played you, so the fuck what.

    I guess you can flat and play post flop (we're in position), but our history doesn't tell us much about how he's playing post flop. Is he firing on 9-hi flops and are we getting it in?

    Shoving seems terrible b/c as previous poster mentioned, if he understands 3-bet/4-bet game, he's not calling with any hands we're beating.

    I'm torn between flatting and folding pre, but I hate shoving and/or 4-betting.

    Plan:

    A) keep the pot small and get to showdown
    B) get it in on safe flops
    C) flop QQQFH

    If we're leaning towards B, shove pre. If we're leaning towards C, fold pre. A = flat.
  8. yellowhat yellowhat is offline

    Paris
    France

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    Jan 17th, 2010 (1/17/2010 8:41am) in reply to yellowhat

    Thanks for the few replies, not sure I like flatting at all, don't think he's ever bluffing there but if you flat do you get it in on every flop even A and/or K high or do you reevaluate?

    I was more concerned about figuring how wide his value range is, and if you guys ever narrow it down so such a tight range in live tournies based on tells and history that you end up making big folds.
     
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  9. CzechItDown CzechItDown is offline

    Cambridge, MA
    United States

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    Jan 17th, 2010 (1/17/2010 8:46am) in reply to yellowhat

    Shove the second he calls for time.

    People do that more when they want a fold than a call/shove.
  10. yellowhat yellowhat is offline

    Paris
    France

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    Jan 17th, 2010 (1/17/2010 9:03am) in reply to CzechItDown

     
    Originally Posted by CzechItDown View Post

    Shove the second he calls for time.

    People do that more when they want a fold than a call/shove.

    My friends were telling me people do that when they're strong usually, especially younger people, trying to tilt you, cause they said when people are bluffing, they try to make themselves as "small" and quiet as possible.
     
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