I have had a very difficult time with this hand. A couple HSMTTers who were @ the table were even confused as to what the best line is.

background: Tournament started with 25K in chips with 1 hr levels starting @ 25/50...wtf? But anyways, we get there 5 min before it starts so we obv all are sitting together. Prob 4-5 young online MTTers, 2 old guys, and then some randoms. Play for first level is just limp till you die and check fold ery flop, a pretty good table given 4-5 guys are decent. My image is fairly tight.

Guy on my immed left who the hand involves is mid 20's, hungover from the night before, smells terrible, and won't stfu. Doesn't look good as he is going along playing the same style as the fish @ the table, not ever once isolating the mass of limpers for the first 90 minutes.

Hand: blinds 50/100, 23.5K effective stacks

4 limpers to me in the CO and I make it 625 with AKo, guy on my immed left makes it 1700 and it folds back to me....After not much thought I simply call since we are so deep and 4 betting would be pure spew i.e. no value. 95% of who I have talked to this about say flatting here is 100% standard even though we are OOP, 23.5k effective makes it the right play.

Flop is AsKs5x and I check OOP. Villian leads 2K and I call.

----I was already confused on the flop, being sooo deep stacked, I can't figure out the best line without turning my hand into a bluff. I wanted to c/r the flop but theres no way he continues with worse, so that is out the window.

Turn is a red 8. I check again and villian leads 5K.....Call/fold/raise? Well I had 18K behind and fucking called...Should I be bet folding the turn? Maybe throw 4800 out and fold to a shove?

River is an offsuit 2 and I have 13K behind and he has me covered.....I check again, he ships it in and now what? Just fold with 13K @ 50/100? plentttttty of chips to play with, or call? But he never turns up worse right??

Some advice I did recieve said that open shoving the river could get calls by worse if I am deciding to go with it on the river.

Thoughts, criticism, or questions? Thanks.

i would think he shows up with AA, KK, or AK most of the time and take it as a cooler, im not good enough to get away from the hand

fold pre esp if you arent willing to go broke on this sort of flop, turn, or river.

jam river if you think he can call, or check call if you think hes capable of bluffing. hungover usually makes a case for recklessness. fwiw im calling the river fairly quickly

 

Originally Posted by pokerjamers

fold pre esp if you arent willing to go broke on this sort of flop, turn, or river.

saying that, call river.

 

Originally Posted by pokerjamers

fold pre esp if you arent willing to go broke on this sort of flop, turn, or river.

Yes I had one or two people say that folding preflop is not a terrible play but me isolating 4 limpers and him knowing I am an online player, I think his range for 3 betting me should be wide enough where flatting is surely +EV being so deepstacked.

 

Originally Posted by Stuman123

 

Originally Posted by pokerjamers

fold pre esp if you arent willing to go broke on this sort of flop, turn, or river.

Yes I had one or two people say that folding preflop is not a terrible play but me isolating 4 limpers and him knowing I am an online player, I think his range for 3 betting me should be wide enough where flatting is surely +EV being so deepstacked.

It surely cant be +ev if you're folding on this type of board texture ever.

the way you played the hands says anything but AK to your opponent..dont forget how well hidden the strength of your hand is on the river..

 

Originally Posted by gutshtallin

 

Originally Posted by pokerjamers

fold pre esp if you arent willing to go broke on this sort of flop, turn, or river.

Agree completely...Even being that deep, what flop are u expecting to hit any harder?? I play this hand as a monster which it is...if you are puttin him on aa or kk then fold pre, but as played i cant fold here...People are just too bad live. Guy may go broke with aj and aq becuase u never raised flop, not to mention you could very well both have ak.

As far as this line is concerned, i would likely chk call it off just incase he does want to 3 barrell bluff. I cant find a fold here.

I don't see how you can tell him "if you put him on AA or KK then fold pre". He obv is not putting him on those hands automatically PF because of villains 3-bet. But as played, he's finding more and more reasons as to how this could be AA or KK. So it makes no sense to tell him he should have folded pre after all the action has taken place. His thoughts are YES he hit the flop hard. But nothing has slowed this guy down. My thinking, he's seen Stuman flat on every street thus far, and is still not scared to continue with the barrels. So, yes, Stuman should be hesitant and CAN find reasons to fold. Don't forget there's TONS of poker to be played even if he thinks on the last street, wow, i'm beat.
Also, would he push AJ AQ or check call in that spot. I think the latter, unless he's just really bad. But looking back at action, what can he be holding. He makes this play with AA, KK, AK and air. Air's a tough one esp if this guy hasn't 3 bet much thus far at this level.
Gotta be beat? I really have no issue about how you played this hand at all. I think everythings fine, even tanking it at end and folding is FINE. still lots of poker, esp if you think you've got an edge on table. Looks like one big cooler. top 2 vs set? but now who can get away from it? if it's that one rare time he's got air....so be it. get em next time :)
gl

I prolly just fold pre against this type of opponent....once you called and saw this flop however, thats it, you cant fold.

 

Originally Posted by AmSlim22

if u call turn, i don't see how u can fold river

i think he is 3-barrelling enough that u can call

meh I really don't think people 3 barrel all in in live tournys everrrrrr, nor NEVER nearly as much as you would think.

worst structured sentence ever. But I meant, people rarely 3 bet in live donkaments but I did think he would be one capable of it cuz he would definitely show the entire table his bluff if it indeed was one.

The way you play this hand is very read dependent imo. I think in a vacuum your line is prob fine and you should be getting it in on the river most of the time. A random live opponent is certainly capable of having something other than AA/KK/AK (like AQ/some random bluffs/flush draws).

However, given your read that he has been willing to limp and see flops without much intention of iso'ing, I think his range screams AK/JJ+. Since that flop doesnt seem to slow him down, it's probably way more likely its AA/KK/AK. That being said, at some point during the hand I think you need to raise rather than having to call 13k on the river on what amounts to a guess.

Tbh, based on his past action, his 3bet of you pre should raise alarms for you. Either way, lead the flop, c/r the flop, call flop/lead turn will all give you a better idea of what exactly he's holding then just c/c all streets.

not folding pre is just simply awful

sick 1 outer..

Viable options:

1) Fold pre
2) Fold turn
3) Reraise pre to find out now what ur up against
4) Raise on the flop to find out more about where you are (your amount of money used to call on the turn could have been used to find out more on the flop for cheaper)
5) Check raise turn to take it down or fold to a 3 bet
6) Call River

NOT Viable options
1) Fold on river once you got to this spot
2) Flatting turn