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Spot to fold AA in a SNG?

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  1. bertminatti bertminatti is offline

    Buffalo, NY
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:06am)

    Short stack has been sitting out for the last 10 minutes. The SB's shove range here is obv ATC. Normally this is a snap call according to ICM, but knowing that I can fold my way into the money, can I let this go?

    Table '81522248 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: bertminatti (1780 in chips)
    Seat 2: Kdall2005 (425 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 3: mAiEsTro (3080 in chips)
    Seat 6: UFgatorsNJV (8215 in chips)
    bertminatti: posts the ante 25
    Kdall2005: posts the ante 25
    mAiEsTro: posts the ante 25
    UFgatorsNJV: posts the ante 25
    UFgatorsNJV: posts small blind 200
    bertminatti: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to bertminatti [Ad As]
    Kdall2005: folds
    mAiEsTro: folds
    UFgatorsNJV: raises 7790 to 8190 and is all-in
    bertminatti: ???
  2. Bobmurphy Bobmurphy is offline

    Lawrence, KS
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:08am) in reply to bertminatti

    FOLD AA PREFLOP? are you crazy??? I play to win... I'm thinking about how good my position will be after i double up...
  3. KCKyle KCKyle is offline

    Kansas City, MO
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:10am) in reply to Bobmurphy

    if this player is sitting out and you can fold to the money you HAVE to fold aces

    it isnt even a choice sir......well if you have a brain that is

    i hope to god you folded if you KNOW he is sitting out til you money
  4. shooterkr shooterkr is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:10am) in reply to Bobmurphy

    You can definitely let it go... then withdraw all your money and don't ever play again. Snap call while doing your standard 'please hold' dance. Play to win is my standard, but could be wrong since its a SNG.
  5. iloveparis iloveparis is offline

    Saint Paul, MN
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:17am) in reply to shooterkr

    I would call AA, KK,QQ here ...No way you fold AA in this spot

    iloveparis
  6. bertminatti bertminatti is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:38am) in reply to shooterkr

    Play to win is my standard, but could be wrong since its a SNG.

    It is definitely wrong. But thanks for your input.
    Thread Starter
  7. Bobmurphy Bobmurphy is offline

    Lawrence, KS
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:43am) in reply to bertminatti

    Def wrong? Playin to win bad? 1st-3rd place money beats 4th place money in my book
  8. fstick77 fstick77 is offline

    Long Beach, CA
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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:43am) in reply to bertminatti

    It depends on how much money. If you're playing a $5 - $27 sng, then you have to call. But, if you're playing a $200 or $500 sng, then maybe I fold my way to the money.

    And having said all this, I probably would still call with AA. I mean, what other hand are you waiting for? K3off?
  9. shipitdotcom shipitdotcom is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:45am) in reply to bertminatti

    instaCALL gtfo
     
  10. Bobmurphy Bobmurphy is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:46am) in reply to fstick77

    ok fstick you win. I take back my comment then. If this is one of your higher end sng's than cashing here holds plenty of benefits for your BR. I apologize for assuming it was in your standard lower end range of sng's thought it was just another among the masses.. I will agree with fstick on this one..

    maybe even a above the $27 then cashin becomes pretty profitable vs. losing with AA and dropping out in 5th. my bad..
  11. bertminatti bertminatti is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:48am) in reply to Bobmurphy

    Exactly. If my aces lose and I finish 4th, I make nothing. If I fold, I'm guaranteed at least 3rd place.
    Thread Starter
  12. KCKyle KCKyle is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:48am) in reply to Bobmurphy

    i piss benjamins.....what does the buy in have to do with it being a good or bad play?
  13. fstick77 fstick77 is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:50am) in reply to Bobmurphy

    But then again, the player who went all in is a fan of the Florida Gators. You have to take his chips. CALL CALL CALL!
  14. okse54 okse54 is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:52am) in reply to bertminatti

    call!!! u play for the #1 spot not for making it in the money. long term +EV to call, a 1st is worth more than a couple 3rds
     
  15. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:53am) in reply to bertminatti

    Folding Aces preflop is correct during bubble time in a satellite, if you're facing a raise from a player who has you covered, and your stack is healthy enough, so you dont need the chips to get the seat. I'm not sure if is correct to fold them in this particular spot, but without looking up the numbers i wouldn't say is horrible. Right now your chips have a monetary value, since they guarantee you a spot in the top 3, while if you lose your chips are worthless.
     1
  16. Diggs Diggs is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:53am) in reply to bertminatti

    The buyin doesn't matter.....call with KK+ imo
  17. Roark21 Roark21 is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:54am) in reply to bertminatti

    never
  18. Bobmurphy Bobmurphy is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:54am) in reply to bertminatti

    my bad didnt accurately read HH. I play 18 mans use to 4 man = money therefore adjust my statement accordingly...
  19. shooterkr shooterkr is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:55am) in reply to bertminatti

    Don't ask for opinions if you don't want them. Next time be more clear and say, "I'm looking for opinions that are in line with mine, anyone with thoughts?"
  20. bertminatti bertminatti is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 12:56am) in reply to shooterkr

    I'm looking for as many opinions as possible, but when you chime in with "then withdraw all your money and don't ever play again," I take it a little personal.
    Thread Starter
  21. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:01am) in reply to Roark21

    this is a sick spot and i think i would ONLY call with AA.

    you never know when the guy sitting out will come back and then double up 2 hands in a row.
  22. Killerbud21 Killerbud21 is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:05am) in reply to bertminatti

    Fold but make sure and smash the mouse immediately afterwards. (If the order was different, (ss is allin very next hand correct?) I may call since I'd rather have a chance with AA to better my position to get 1st/2nd but I suck so whatev)
  23. ChuckSty ChuckSty is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:10am) in reply to Killerbud21

    my guess is aa is the only hand that is a call... but i'm not an sng player somethign about folding the best hand and i just don't mix. folding the worst hand is hard enough.
     1
  24. Willywoo Willywoo is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:14am) in reply to ChuckSty

    Depends on your objective.
  25. epicatc epicatc is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:14am) in reply to NetFan44

    I definitely call here with AA; now KK would be a trickier decision.

    Part of the issue is your stack. Let's say you fold, then fold the next two hands until the shortstack is gone. Now you have what, 1000 chips, and 400 are in the BB, meaning you're pretty much going to with any random hand. By that point, even if you double up you'll still be in third.

    So basically, yes you're guaranteed money by folding, but you've made it so you will most likely take third. If you call and get yourself that double-up like you will 85% of the time, now you're in second with a healthy stack and a good chance to win if you're better at push/fold than your opponents.

    Im not saying it's godawful to fold there; its an interesting dilemma. Im just saying that it would be a tougher call if you had 3k in chips than if you had what you had.

    Let's change the question: let's say you're on the bubble and the shorty with 1bb isn't sitting out. Would you fold then? You stand almost as good a chance as sneaking into the money, and your odds against any two cards arent any different. In these spots, Im pretty sure you cost yourself money by folding because you are throwing away winnable games. Could you still come back from 1k in chips at 200/400 to win? Sure, but you're at the mercy of the cards. If you have an edge and want to have a chance to use it, you have to call.
  26. elendil elendil is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:15am) in reply to ChuckSty

    If the SNG pays more for 1st or 2nd , I think U must call. I'm a massive nit, but there is no way I'm Folding that.
  27. sirswish6 sirswish6 is offline i mean super business

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:28am) in reply to bertminatti

    um, i would call with 88+, gg nits
    145 
  28. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 1:32am) in reply to sirswish6

    Like you said: GG to you if you call 88 here
     1
  29. H8M8C H8M8C is offline

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 2:10am) in reply to andressoprano

    I would never fold AA in that spot. If you're worried about cashing than your probably playing out of your bankroll. You would have to win 4-5 thirds to equal the profit of one first so play to win.
  30. BillMueller BillMueller is offline OT President

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    Mar 20th, 2008 (3/20/2008 2:14am) in reply to bertminatti

    call all day every day and twice on sunday imo

    I hate folding here, but I think I hate it because with my luck the guy sits back in and wins his next 42 all ins and i fucking bubble anyway.

    imo this is a call. I am fairly confident icm would show it to be a call as well, aside from the fact you cannot factor in the player sitting out into the calculations.

    nc
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