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Spot from last night's FTP 150k

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  1. steely steely is offline

    Delray Beach, FL
    United States

    Posts: 1,800
    Joined: Mar 05

    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 8:10pm)

    Gentlemen (and the odd female):

    First off, some great stuff in this forum and congrats to you all on your MTT accomplishments; though I am not worthy, I would like your thoughts on this hand.

    I don't have the HH but it was as follows:

    12 left in FTP $150k (nightly 8pm) so table was 6 handed. I am UTG with ATo have about 400k at 6k-12k (1k antes) and am below average; table image should be pretty solid but an important fact is that last time UTG i raised and took the blinds, and I think I raised from same spot 2 orbits before that as well, so BB may be looking to play back at me. BB is well over $1mm and the player is RCrusher.

    He is table CL but has not been particularly abusive/aggro, esp. by the standards of the table (The Ute, ArielBahia, etc.). I raise to 24k and it folds to RC who makes it 57k. Again, he folded last time i raised his BB and I believe one other time; we have not jousted much overall at the table and he got his chips from standard big hand spots, as far as i recall. My instinct is that he is inclined to 3 bet lighter here to keep me off of his BB and is trying to use his stack which has grown a ton over the past 10-15 hand -- I can make a case for 4bet, but I don't love this spot and wonder what you'd likely do given this limited info. I don't have a great book on RC or know too much about him beyond what i noted above.

    thanks very much -- i am enjoying the forum.
     
  2. Cre8ive Cre8ive is offline Moderator

    Boynton Beach, FL
    United States

    Posts: 668
    Joined: Jan 07

    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 9:12pm) in reply to steely

    It would help your case a lot if you could provide the hand history. Given the dynamics I really think only you can justify whatever play you should make here. Personally I think a fold is best at this stage in the tournament given the information. If you think he is capable of being light here often, you're picking up 100k (increasing stack by 25% almost) if you do shove and get a fold.
    Edited By: Cre8ive Mar 31st, 2011 at 09:13 PM
      
  3. BIgFlOPPeR01 BIgFlOPPeR01 is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 73
    Joined: Dec 07

    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 9:37pm) in reply to Cre8ive

    PItch imo, ftp structures that deep are crap and some spew will spazz his chips off soon enough... esp. 6 handed and guys on your left which is even better down the line... that is if your opening utg and guy is in bb everytime.....
     
  4. steely steely is offline

    Delray Beach, FL
    United States

    Posts: 1,800
    Joined: Mar 05

    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 10:33pm) in reply to BIgFlOPPeR01

    Seems sensible (and that's what I did) but I feel like maybe there's enough here to veer away from the default play -- here we have a big stack on heater who i think feels like it's time to play back at me, plus I just felt like he was weak for whatever *Blink* (M. Gladwell) type reasons. Looking for insight on how much you lean on minor dynamics and feel -- I feel like I don't lean on them enough.

    I don't know how you guys get up for your day jobs every day -- i've been playing a lot this week and i am completely shot.
     
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  5. Vekked Vekked is offline

    Waterloo
    Canada

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    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 10:57pm) in reply to steely

    I'd just muck. Reasons:

    1) Your image is decent, there's no dynamic to indicate he's gonna be pulling a move, and it just seems like an awful spot for him to be light unless there's something else going on.

    2) He's in the BB and you min-raise so I feel like he's going to peel with a ton of his range that might otherwise 3-bet if he was in a different position.

    3) Even if 4-betting is warranted, I don't think this is a hand you need to be playing back with. This is likely the bottom of your range here, or at least the worst ace you open under the gun. I don't think this spot is one that you need to be playing back with the very bottom of your range, I think you can fold and feel fine about it, and 4-bet with AQo or AJs or whatever is closer to the top of what you don't feel is ahead of his value range.
    Edited By: Vekked Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:58 PM
     1
  6. RoyalCrusher RoyalCrusher is offline

    Cheshire, CT
    United States

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    Mar 31st, 2011 (3/31/2011 11:19pm) in reply to Vekked

    shove
     1
  7. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2011 (4/1/2011 12:16am) in reply to RoyalCrusher

    What was villains stack? Would be a lot easier w the hh...

    And nice back raise 4b/c vs me w the ol AQ last night RC looool nice finish
     
  8. pokerproplaya08 pokerproplaya08 is offline

    FL
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2011 (4/1/2011 12:39am) in reply to I Spew Chips

    folds
  9. steely steely is offline

    Delray Beach, FL
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2011 (4/1/2011 4:31am) in reply to RoyalCrusher

    ni han
     
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  10. Drewfus81 Drewfus81 is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 69
    Joined: Oct 06

    Apr 6th, 2011 (4/6/2011 6:46pm) in reply to steely

    It is much better to have a 4b click back range here rather than a 4b shove range here imo. You can make his 57k 115k here with your nutted and air range (AT included in air range). Allows for much more maneuvering late while still handcuffing him with your nutted range for induces. Now time to level some regs.
     
  11. Flush_Entity Flush_Entity is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

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    Joined: Sep 10

    May 12th, 2011 (5/12/2011 7:17pm) in reply to Drewfus81

    I agree with Drewfus. While I can appreciate Vekked's perspective on your image and the lack of any real dynamic with Crusher, you force him to play so honestly with just a click back 4 bet. A shove is absolutely terrible here, because he's not going to jam light on an UTG raise/4 bet even if he is the chip leader (why would he punt 35 BB in this spot with air?).

    Also, I don't think that Crusher would necessarilly peel with a hand as weak as Kc7c or Qs8s in the BB to an UTG raiser when it's just 6 handed especially since he's the chip leader. He'd rather put the pressure on and force you to make a decision with your medium-strong range preflop, ESPECIALLY if he thinks you're not capable of 4betting light in this spot (and that goes back to my last point where if he probably doesn't think you're capable of that, when you do it,he's certainly gonna think you're nutted, and fold his air range). Make it 115k, even as small as 100k to really look strong, and force him to put all the chips in against your perceived nutty range.

    And if it doesn't work, and he was huge, you still have over 25 BB, a playable stack, and you've shown you're willing to 4b fold from UTG, which will force the rest of the table to play more honestly with you as well.

    Even if it doesn't work out, it's not always a mistake to level off some chips in a high variance spot like this because it shows the table you're not going to get run over.
    1 121 
  12. quietwinner quietwinner is offline

    MO
    United States

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    May 13th, 2011 (5/13/2011 8:00am) in reply to Flush_Entity

    4b call
     
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