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Standard or Different Line Possible?

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  1. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

    Posts: 1,178
    Joined: Sep 07

    Mar 23rd, 2009 (3/23/2009 11:58pm)

    This is live so bear with me on the HH.

    Blinds 3000-6000 (no antes) - 15-minute levels

    9-handed table. All folded around to Button (me)
    Me: 45K chips
    SB: 60K chips
    BB: 40K chips

    Pre-Flop action:
    I Raised to 18K on the button
    SB: calls 18K
    BB: 3-bet raises all-in for 40K
    Me: 4-bet raise all-in to 45K
    SB: flat calls 27K

    Hands
    Me: J-J
    SB: K-J(os)
    BB: T-T

    Flop: K-8-6-
    Turn: 2
    River: Q

    Don't have any particular reads on either SB or BB. The way the hand was played, it was my intention to isolate with the BB, but did not think the SB could call this light....especially with my initial raise, SB's 3-bet (all-in), and my 4-bet (all-in).

    SB's getting 3-1 on his money, true, but does he have the odds to be calling with K-J(os) here?

    I think my play was correct seeing that I've got the SB dead to 3 outs and the BB dead to 2 outs.

    I can't find any other line to play here. I don't think this hand could end any other way.

    Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
  2. Admiral Admiral is offline

    Boulder, CO
    United States

    Posts: 8,251
    Joined: Feb 06

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:03am) in reply to JKamikazeKid

    First hes getting 3.8 to 1 and second if anyone ever folds for 27K into a ~100K pot with 18K already invested I would endlessly ridicule his play in my head.

    Your line here preflop is to open shove.

    You also should never justify your play as correct because you "got the SB dead to 3 outs and the BB dead to 2 outs.". That is completely irrelevant to how well you played a hand.
  3. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

    Posts: 1,178
    Joined: Sep 07

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:15am) in reply to Admiral

    Another thing to consider. This is a charity poker tournament so I don't expect the players to be top class. A 3x bet scared him off in a previous hand so I figured that my 3x bet would do the same....but it didn't.

    If he's calling a 3x bet, wouldn't it be safe to say that he'd still call my open shove? Those were the types of hands that he had played all tournament (according to a guy that's seen him play all afternoon)

    I agree that the open shove line is much better than the line I took, but I just don't know if he would have folded K-J even to an open shove.
    Thread Starter
  4. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
    Joined: Mar 06

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:16am) in reply to Admiral

    Just push pre.
  5. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

    Posts: 1,178
    Joined: Sep 07

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:22am) in reply to AFink93

    Ok, so question for both of you guys.

    If I open shove there, and he calls, that IS a bad play on his part right? Since it's a 7.5x BB raise and it's for 75% of his stack.
    I can see his play turning into a correct one based on the way the hand was played and the odds he was getting laid on the all-in call. Thanks guys...I can't believe I missed that.
    Thread Starter
  6. Annette_15 Annette_15 is offline

    Norway

    Posts: 1,803
    Joined: Jan 06

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:29am) in reply to JKamikazeKid

    I would SNAP call a 7,5x shove from the btn 3 handed if I had KJ and I'd expect to be ahead almost every time.
     121
  7. Admiral Admiral is offline

    Boulder, CO
    United States

    Posts: 8,251
    Joined: Feb 06

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:37am) in reply to Annette_15

     
    Originally Posted by Annette_15 View Post

    I would SNAP call a 7,5x shove from the btn 3 handed if I had KJ and I'd expect to be ahead almost every time.

  8. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

    Posts: 1,178
    Joined: Sep 07

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:51am) in reply to Admiral

    OK, so in conclusion, the line I took was not a good one, but even if I took the correct line and open shoved, I'm still getting called and KO'd.

    I just wanted to make sure that nothing could be done differently to avoid getting KO'd, and folding is NEVER an option here.

    Thanks for the info all.
    Thread Starter
  9. selder1 selder1 is offline

    Victoria
    Canada

    Posts: 701
    Joined: Oct 07

    Mar 24th, 2009 (3/24/2009 12:56am) in reply to JKamikazeKid

    shove pre, and although a competent player will still call you with KJ, I feel like a lot of live players in a short stacked tourney will fold.
     
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