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Stars $162 3 handed bvb spot vs big CL

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  1. Puggy82 Puggy82 is offline

    Posts: 389
    Joined: Jun 06

    Apr 19th, 2010 (4/19/2010 10:26pm)

    Just came 3rd in Stars $162 and unsure over the final hand.

    pokerstars Game #42917461973: Tournament #307011251, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVIII (4000/8000) - 2010/04/20 14:07:33 NZT [2010/04/19 22:07:33 ET]

    Table '307011251 21' 9-max Seat #8 is the button

    Seat 2: mincentattie (289972 in chips)

    Seat 4: xalkidas (1169905 in chips)

    Seat 8: Vera15 (151123 in chips)

    mincentattie: posts the ante 1000

    xalkidas: posts the ante 1000

    Vera15: posts the ante 1000

    mincentattie: posts small blind 4000

    xalkidas: posts big blind 8000

    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    Dealt to mincentattie [6c 6d]

    Vera15: folds

    mincentattie: raises 11500 to 19500

    xalkidas: raises 1149405 to 1168905 and is all-in

    mincentattie: calls 269472 and is all-in

    Uncalled bet (879933) returned to xalkidas

    *** FLOP *** [9s Th Td]

    *** TURN *** [9s Th Td] [Jd]

    *** RIVER *** [9s Th Td Jd] [7d]

    *** SHOW DOWN ***

    mincentattie: shows [6c 6d] (two pair, Tens and Sixes)

    xalkidas: shows [Kc 8s] (a straight, Seven to Jack)

    xalkidas collected 580944 from pot

    *** SUMMARY ***

    Total pot 580944 | Rake 0

    Board [9s Th Td Jd 7d]

    Seat 2: mincentattie (small blind) showed [6c 6d] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sixes

    Seat 4: xalkidas (big blind) showed [Kc 8s] and won (580944) with a straight, Seven to Jack

    Seat 8: Vera15 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    Is this an ICM disaster?

    Payouts:

    $15304
    $11277
    $8256

    I've had people telling me i should have open shoved and others saying i should have limp shoved. If i limp and he shoves do i call?

    Never played with each other before today. Today we 3 and 4 bet each other a few times in the final few tables, nothing major. I doubled through him at the FT jamming KTo for 15bbs on his raise beating his AQ (maybe 45mins before this hand).

    Thanks.
     1
  2. nw25th nw25th is offline

    Daejeon
    Korea, Republic of

    Posts: 1,386
    Joined: Jun 07

    Apr 19th, 2010 (4/19/2010 10:36pm) in reply to Puggy82

    it's a great play by him....he's got a monster chip lead over you two, and knows you should only be calling with a monster...I'd probably fold in this spot with a "ughh"...you know that no matter what you're probably flipping...

    edit: I think you played the hand fine...but you should just fold to that shove...
  3. Puggy82 Puggy82 is offline

    Posts: 389
    Joined: Jun 06

    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 2:01pm) in reply to Puggy82

    Posted this last night, maybe a bit too late for most to see.
     1
    Thread Starter
  4. BBOY3110 BBOY3110 is offline

    Malta

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 2:23pm) in reply to Puggy82

    dont understand why you'd open shove.

    i'd r/c like you did (not really expecting him to jam tho).

    if i raised n he 3b, i'd jam.

    his shove is awful, ul.
    400 
  5. The Spewtard The Spewtard is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 1,155
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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 2:40pm) in reply to BBOY3110

    Your stack's too big to open shove. I think R/C is fine but obv its a flip alot of the time but Im never R/Fing this.
    770 2
  6. Big Huni Big Huni is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:13pm) in reply to BBOY3110

     
    Originally Posted by BBOY3110 View Post

    dont understand why you'd open shove.

    i'd r/c like you did (not really expecting him to jam tho).

    if i raised n he 3b, i'd jam.

    his shove is awful, ul.

    Im gonna have to say I disagree with some of this
    3 3
  7. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:17pm) in reply to Big Huni

     
    Originally Posted by Big Huni View Post

    Im gonna have to say I disagree with some of this

    and
     
  8. BBOY3110 BBOY3110 is offline

    Malta

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:27pm) in reply to Big Huni

     
    Originally Posted by Big Huni View Post

    Im gonna have to say I disagree with some of this

    welp.

    what would you do chris?
    400 
  9. theNorfman theNorfman is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:28pm) in reply to darkcheck_

    his shove def isnt awful tho it isnt something i ever do.
    its waaay too many chips to open jam. he's obv beasting the tourney.....so ya clearly he d have some a5's and a6's in here too.......def some smaller pairs too. r/c is prob optimal

    I mean there are times when i can find the fold button maybe but not here. ul
    188 3
  10. bbbbb33 bbbbb33 is offline

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:28pm) in reply to Big Huni

     
    Originally Posted by Big Huni View Post

     
    Originally Posted by BBOY3110 View Post


    dont understand why you'd open shove.

    i'd r/c like you did (not really expecting him to jam tho).

    if i raised n he 3b, i'd jam.

    his shove is awful, ul.

    Im gonna have to say I disagree with some of this

    englightenment.
     1
  11. jshark4 jshark4 is offline

    United States

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:32pm) in reply to BBOY3110

     
    Originally Posted by BBOY3110 View Post

    dont understand why you'd open shove.

    i'd r/c like you did (not really expecting him to jam tho).

    if i raised n he 3b, i'd jam.

    his shove is awful, ul.

    seems bout right
    2
  12. Damage1 Damage1 is offline

    Pittsburgh, PA
    United States

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 3:50pm) in reply to jshark4

    too lazy to do numbers but icm probably says fold
  13. fly44 fly44 is offline

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 5:08pm) in reply to Puggy82

    This is a really shitty spot. I am no ICM expert but I think calling here is really really awful. You only gain ~$1200 in equity when you double and lose around ~$2900 when you lose.

    All options are really terrible, if he is super active open folding is probably best but if not raise/folding is fine. Limping also works if he isnt going to shove a ton of the time after your limp.
    521 1
  14. quietwinner quietwinner is offline

    MO
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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 5:23pm) in reply to fly44

    it all depends on dynamics. if you think ur the best player, then i would fold, because i think about 95% of the time ur raising or behind(mainly racing), 5% at most he has like a6 or less, or a weak king or something.

    if the cl is raising a lot and u think u can jam on him plenty and chip up, then id say fold. if the cl is snapping off with any face and such, id prob just call because ur gonna get in this situation eventually.

    if u think theres no way your going to win tho, then either ship because neither will call without a monster, or raise fold, or just fold, and basically work with the chip leader to chip down the short stack, and then u still have a small chance to come back heads up and win.

    if it was me, i prob overship being that the small stack is in the big blind. i dont hate a raise call either, u win the race, u got a chance to win.
     
  15. JDsmith9 JDsmith9 is offline

    Greensboro, NC
    United States

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 9:37pm) in reply to Puggy82

    raise/calling isnt that bad considering a shove was pretty absurd with these stack sizes, but i like limp/shoving a lot better
     
  16. Whatshoulditbe Whatshoulditbe is offline

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    Apr 20th, 2010 (4/20/2010 11:10pm) in reply to Puggy82

    agree w/ quietwinner about looking at your overall situation and assessing if you can chip up later more easily or if you'll eventually find this spot anyways. Given the hh and minimal reads you have i'd likely fold and look for that better spot. Not to be results oriented, but given his reshove w/ K8 looks like we could find a pretty decent spot later if he's going to be this active...

    edit: I think this spot is super close either way. seems like given stack sizes you're going to have to pick a spot fairly quickly before you get too short and CL runs away with the win.
     
  17. p0cket00 p0cket00 is offline

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    Apr 21st, 2010 (4/21/2010 1:00am) in reply to JDsmith9

    i would limp shove here i think in this spot since hes gunna prolly raise all his bbs given the other guys stack. As played tho i dont mind a call since ur going for the win, it just sucks here since most of his "air jammin" range ur flippin against, but i think there is still quite a bit of hands u dominate so I dont mind the call, but ye im limp shoving here.
    8 41
  18. lpaper lpaper is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

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    Apr 21st, 2010 (4/21/2010 1:01am) in reply to Whatshoulditbe

    do u post this hand if you win the coinflip?

    aside form that , id bet that acc. to icm its a fold, but fk icm

    r/c seems fine, cause im assumimg villains 3ball is crushed by 66
    3
  19. Skitz0Frenik Skitz0Frenik is offline

    Zrich
    Switzerland

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    Apr 21st, 2010 (4/21/2010 1:18am) in reply to Puggy82

    I see nothing wrong with raise/call
  20. AmSlim22 AmSlim22 is offline

    Port Jefferson, NY
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    Apr 21st, 2010 (4/21/2010 1:29am) in reply to Skitz0Frenik

    think it depends a lot on dynamics. but i dont like having to raise/call in this spot. it just means u have to win at showdown, i would rather have a way to get him folding sometimes.

    i doubt open shoving is all that bad. and i kinda like the limp shove.
     
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