raise...ALL IN

fwiw:

Board: Js 8c 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.785% 37.41% 00.38% 10739 109.00 { 6c5c }
Hand 1: 62.215% 61.84% 00.38% 17753 109.00 { JJ, 88-77, AcJc, AcTc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, JcTc, Jc9c, J8s-J7s, T9s, 87s }

all the hands i could imagine us being up against if hes a good reg and r/c this flop vs moorman

i understand some are a lil bit of a stretch assuming the flat pre and inclination to get it in on this flop but i think its vclose.

either way we are 37% when called... if anyone wants to finish the math for me just figure out whats in the pot relative to stacks and decide on a small percent that he actually r/f and add that in. too tired to do any more thinking on this.

by the looks of this i think jamming will be better than flatting since we are just burning that equity when we c/f the turn on missed boards (or getting it in bad sometimes when we hit) its just gonna be better to push that 37% edge when called and hopefully with whats already in the pot and maybe the small % he r/f the rest of it is made up for and the play becomes +ev.

lil hard to argue since we dont know if villain ever r/f but meh we can get close mathwise i think on this.

and ya id rather fold if jamming isnt gonna be +ev, flatting seems pointless for reasons i stated b4

 

Originally Posted by jaydeez40oz

Why is Villain raising Moorman1 with a set or the nuts would be my first question.

#2- Why are we playing 56s UTG+1 if once we flop a straight flush draw were going to fold it for an extra 250$?

I'm no genius and I don't play enough to know what's going on 90% of the time, but isn't 17 outs a favorite here???

Fold? O rly? I wanna see anybody fold this here. I'd pay to see a fold here really...because I highly doubt ANYBODY here is folding this.

What 10x is villain raising small with? J10? A10? 910? I just don't see villain raising with the nuts here so with...2 cards to come; 2 cards giving us gin and 7 others giving us a small flush (which I feel would be the best hand here.) and another 3 giving us the small str8.

Such a tough spot and that's why I fold these pf here, to avoid these tough decisions...but as played I don't see us folding EVER.

#1 Either call/check/call and lose/win a small pot

or

#2 3bet/bet/call and lose/win a big pot.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

this post is just wrong on everything

first, it makes a ton of sense for villain to raise the nuts or a set here. Flatting a set this deep stacked on this kind of board against a very competent player (two in fact) prolly pretty dumb imo.

second, this flop isn't nearly as good as it looks. Just saying 'o well we committed 60 chips pre and hit the flop, can't fold now' is pretty bad.

third, gl trying to get all in on this flop w/17 outs. Again it just sounds like you are thinking about nothing but the two cards in your hand. He doesnt have AJo/QQ/KK/AA here hardly ever, pretty much the only hands you would have that much equity against. (O even against them u have only 14 or 15 outs max.)

getting it in sucks, calling too, ur essentially hoping to hit 4o against a set or 9c/4c against a better flush. beyond that practically every "gin" card has awful implied odds.

ok, got alot of replies and input. Can we see what the result was?

Well then I guess the reality is that we just don't play 56cc OOP in the 1k... If everyone that raises a Moorman1 cbet flops something that crushes a SFD then he should just play flopped sets, flushes and straits... DD you are a great player, would you raise to 250 on a draw heavy board to see where you were at with a wider range than what you posted below? Would making it 1k commit you or could you fold to a 3 bet shove? If you call and hit your straight or flush on the turn how much heat can you handle...? I see why you might fold this in this spot but I'm not convinced this guy doesn't re-raise Moormans cbet with a wider range than the one you presented...

 

Originally Posted by doubledave22

fwiw:

Board: Js 8c 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.785% 37.41% 00.38% 10739 109.00 { 6c5c }
Hand 1: 62.215% 61.84% 00.38% 17753 109.00 { JJ, 88-77, AcJc, AcTc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, JcTc, Jc9c, J8s-J7s, T9s, 87s }

all the hands i could imagine us being up against if hes a good reg and r/c this flop vs moorman

i understand some are a lil bit of a stretch assuming the flat pre and inclination to get it in on this flop but i think its vclose.

either way we are 37% when called... if anyone wants to finish the math for me just figure out whats in the pot relative to stacks and decide on a small percent that he actually r/f and add that in. too tired to do any more thinking on this.

by the looks of this i think jamming will be better than flatting since we are just burning that equity when we c/f the turn on missed boards (or getting it in bad sometimes when we hit) its just gonna be better to push that 37% edge when called and hopefully with whats already in the pot and maybe the small % he r/f the rest of it is made up for and the play becomes +ev.

lil hard to argue since we dont know if villain ever r/f but meh we can get close mathwise i think on this.

and ya id rather fold if jamming isnt gonna be +ev, flatting seems pointless for reasons i stated b4

Moorman, next time you make a post about a High Stakes Mtt like this put HSMTTS in front of it so you dont get these pointless low stake player's response. Although, in process of the hand I might lean towards getting it in cause I got me a straight frush draw. But if you think about it your hand doesnt play as well as you think against the range he's raising with here and I dont see him r/f here often. I agree with what Doubledave and Darkcheck said.

This^^^^

What range of hands are we putting him on?

He calls Moormans raise pre, so dont think he has AA, KK or QQ. Would he flat with JJ, dont know?

Favourites look like AJc, KJc, QJc, J10c, 109c, 88 & 77.

His raise after the flop is smallish. You would think that if he was keen to kill the hand there and then he would raise much larger. There are straight and flush draws, and theres also djk yet to act.

For that reason I dont think he has a set! Although JoJc is possible I suppose.
Most likely is 109c, followed by J10c, QJc, KJc.

Might seem weak but I think its a fold!

 

Originally Posted by B_O_K_E

1st off: Get over yourself.
2nd: Putting HSMTTS in front is not gonna elminate these so called low stake player responses.
3rd: Some of the postings that are wrong are HSMTT regs.
4th: Poker "DISCUSSION"
5th: Get over yourself.
6th: He put "stars 1k" in the title...Stars 1k = HSMTT
7th: Get over yourself.

This thread epitomizes why P5s needs a HS Forum tho. I would never fold the OESFD at the low stakes either, but this tournament is different. I don't care if it makes me look like a douche: flooding this thread with the opinions of players who plays $5 FOs is hurting the chances this forum has of keeping the best players around to discuss poker strategy at a high level.

 

Originally Posted by Mr_BigQueso

call, c/shove turned red deuce contingent on sizing

rrrr'ing flop could only ever good if he's like r/f-ing 2pr/sets etc

This is interesting. I think I call the flop raise to peel one card and c/f red deuce turns, but everyone knows I'm a nit. His raise size is pretty small, I think we can peel one.

 

Originally Posted by Mr Galt

i can't see putting in that much on a non-nut draw unless you can take it away when you miss.

You are getting 3:1 to peel. Pot odds and implied odds should be in his favor, but reverse implied odds are my main concern.

 

Originally Posted by B_O_K_E

1st off: Get over yourself.
2nd: Putting HSMTTS in front is not gonna elminate these so called low stake player responses.
3rd: Some of the postings that are wrong are HSMTT regs.
4th: Poker "DISCUSSION"
5th: Get over yourself.
6th: He put "stars 1k" in the title...Stars 1k = HSMTT
7th: Get over yourself.

lol?????????

BOKE just shut up. what part of lab rat's post is he being egotistical? Lab rat is by far one of the nicest and LEAST egotistical people i've ever met through poker. he brings up valid points in his post, and works harder than anyone to improve his game.

you won the sunday mill like 5 years ago, what have u won since then? do you even play poker anymore? quit lurkin p5's just to troll on people who have way more poker skill than you have.

 

Originally Posted by theczar19

lol?????????

BOKE just shut up. what part of lab rat's post is he being egotistical? Lab rat is by far one of the nicest and LEAST egotistical people i've ever met through poker. he brings up valid points in his post, and works harder than anyone to improve his game.

you won the sunday mill like 5 years ago, what have u won since then? do you even play poker anymore? quit lurkin p5's just to troll on people who have way more poker skill than you have.

HAHA I found a puppet. Now dance, bish dance! Been waiting for someone to come on and berate my last few years of poker. I barely even play MTT'S anymore, mostly cash. I won the mill in 2008 which is less than 2 years ago (nice math). Have a fairly new daughter and wife doesnt want to quit her job, therefore MTT's arent much of an option full time. To call me a lurker is funny. Let me geuss you want to Efight now?

My point was that I thought it was a great hand to discuss and was checking periodically to see the results when Moorman posted them. Instead I find Lab Rats post about how everyone in this thread is a micro donk and the replies are all wrong. He than follows that up with a not so good analyisis on what he would do. Pretty hypocritical huh? I have nothing against him fwiw. He caught me between Monster and a coffee this morning.

 

Originally Posted by theczar19

 

Originally Posted by B_O_K_E

1st off: Get over yourself.
2nd: Putting HSMTTS in front is not gonna elminate these so called low stake player responses.
3rd: Some of the postings that are wrong are HSMTT regs.
4th: Poker "DISCUSSION"
5th: Get over yourself.
6th: He put "stars 1k" in the title...Stars 1k = HSMTT
7th: Get over yourself.

lol?????????

BOKE just shut up. what part of lab rat's post is he being egotistical? Lab rat is by far one of the nicest and LEAST egotistical people i've ever met through poker. he brings up valid points in his post, and works harder than anyone to improve his game.

you won the sunday mill like 5 years ago, what have u won since then? do you even play poker anymore? quit lurkin p5's just to troll on people who have way more poker skill than you have.

cliff notes: you only succeed at life if you play mtts

 

Originally Posted by jdpc27

Starting crap in this thread is not likely to lead to a high stakes forum (which is on the way in a later update to P5's).

Be patient folks...high stakes forum is coming...

just my .02.

JD

i mean. depending on what moderator you talk to i've heard:

"p5's has no plans for a hsmtt forum and is never going to make one"
"hsmtt forum is something we're thinking about and talking about but dont' have any direct plans yet".
"hsmtt forum is on the way, we just odn't know when"

...and now you're saying: "high stakes forum is coming in an update to p5's"

can someone actually put together some sort of official announcement or something, and even perhaps include the community in this decision. i mean, how will the hsmtt forum be moderated? by the same moderators that moderate PD, and just instantly delete posts and threads (which doens't seem very effective). also, who can post in hsmtt? everyone, and just threads deleted by content? or will there be some sort of plb filter or something?

in some ways this site is really really good and amazing, and they definitely do a ton of great things...but in other ways i feel like it's just so backwards and behind other sites