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Stars £2M - Ugh, hate calling for my life this early. It is always right here though isnt it?

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  1. jim5432 jim5432 is offline

    Croydon
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 36
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 2:35pm)

    I'm getting 6/4 when he four bet shoves on me and I must be a lot better than that in this spot? Suggest a range for villain here for me please so that I can stop beating myself up! I know I know - its a must call but that early in the tournament I hate putting my life on the line for a smallish edge.

    pokerstars GAME #18798556052: TOURNAMENT #94708139, $200+$15 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VIII (400/800) - 2008/07/13 - 18:29:00 (ET)
    Table '94708139 258' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: bobbele80 (11809 in chips)
    Seat 2: Buuppa (12044 in chips)
    Seat 3: Ccour (26690 in chips)
    Seat 4: rampart51 (20095 in chips)
    Seat 5: St3phenHendr (44075 in chips)
    Seat 6: MizouClipper (71909 in chips)
    Seat 7: pdp72 (18400 in chips)
    Seat 8: jim5432 (26100 in chips)
    Seat 9: BraunerBr (16090 in chips)
    bobbele80: posts the ante 50
    Buuppa: posts the ante 50
    Ccour: posts the ante 50
    rampart51: posts the ante 50
    St3phenHendr: posts the ante 50
    MizouClipper: posts the ante 50
    pdp72: posts the ante 50
    jim5432: posts the ante 50
    BraunerBr: posts the ante 50
    pdp72: posts small blind 400
    jim5432: posts big blind 800
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to jim5432 [Ad Kd]
    BraunerBr: folds
    bobbele80: folds
    Buuppa: folds
    Ccour: folds
    rampart51: folds
    St3phenHendr: raises 1500 to 2300
    MizouClipper: folds
    MizouClipper is sitting out
    pdp72: folds
    jim5432: raises 4200 to 6500
    MizouClipper has returned
    St3phenHendr: raises 37525 to 44025 and is all-in
     
  2. aad aad is offline

    Detroit, MI
    United States

    Posts: 2,986
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 2:40pm) in reply to jim5432

    Do you have a good read on this guy? If it is a coinflip, it's not worth it, find a better spot. I'm a nit, I would have flatted here to see a flop since villain is already isolated. Then outplay post flop.
  3. JLucky34 JLucky34 is offline

    Beaverton, OR
    United States

    Posts: 1,140
    Joined: Aug 05

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 2:41pm) in reply to jim5432

    when well over 1/4th of your stack is in and only two hands dominate you, you should never be folding. (unless satellite situation obv)
  4. Ship Happens Ship Happens is offline

    Taylor, MI
    United States

    Posts: 7,515
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 2:48pm) in reply to JLucky34

    Is this post a joke? Call and fast.
    1
  5. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

    Posts: 6,644
    Joined: Sep 06

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 2:53pm) in reply to jim5432

    "If it is a coinflip, it's not worth it, find a better spot."

    lol, if it's a flip you MUST call, you'd have to be a god to find a better spot than this.

    And I am calling here as played.

    edit: lol, ship beats me to it again.
  6. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:05pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    are you joking? you 3 bet out of the bb and get shoved on with AK...beat him into the pot. doing anything other than getting it in here is horrible
    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  7. TheFirm53 TheFirm53 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

    Posts: 6,508
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:06pm) in reply to EyeKnows

     
    Originally Posted by EyeKnows View Post

    "If it is a coinflip, it's not worth it, find a better spot."

    lol, if it's a flip you MUST call, you'd have to be a god to find a better spot than this.

    And I am calling here as played.

    edit: lol, ship beats me to it again.

    But lots of times it is not a flip, it really is aces or kings and if you are 90% sure you are up against those hands. Shouldn't he fold? He would have around 20K in chips left.
  8. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:07pm) in reply to TheFirm53

    oh, and if you want to 3 bet and fold to a shove...just open fold next time, it's a way better line
    170 2 
  9. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

    Posts: 6,644
    Joined: Sep 06

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:12pm) in reply to TheFirm53

     
    Originally Posted by TheFirm53 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by EyeKnows View Post

    "If it is a coinflip, it's not worth it, find a better spot."

    lol, if it's a flip you MUST call, you'd have to be a god to find a better spot than this.

    And I am calling here as played.

    edit: lol, ship beats me to it again.

    But lots of times it is not a flip, it really is aces or kings and if you are 90% sure you are up against those hands. Shouldn't he fold? He would have around 20K in chips left.

    What is villain's range and I will tell you if you need to call or fold. Like I said, I am calling, as played, because I ranged villain wide enough that I have to call w these odds. Also, me having and ace and a king makes it less likely villain has AA/KK, half the possible combos to make AA/KK are gone.
  10. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:15pm) in reply to TheFirm53

     
    Originally Posted by TheFirm53 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by EyeKnows View Post

    "If it is a coinflip, it's not worth it, find a better spot."

    lol, if it's a flip you MUST call, you'd have to be a god to find a better spot than this.

    And I am calling here as played.

    edit: lol, ship beats me to it again.

    But lots of times it is not a flip, it really is aces or kings and if you are 90% sure you are up against those hands. Shouldn't he fold? He would have around 20K in chips left.

    this is horrible advice...you can never be 90% sure someone has AA or KK when you're only 26bb's deep. 3 bet folding here is soooooo bad. and about the AA/KK thing...yo'ure telling me he folds AK, AQ, QQ, JJ, TT to his 3 bet from the BB? the initial raiser raised late position, and got re-raised from the BB, neither of these players can/should be giving the other one credit for a hand. if you MUST do the math...he has to call his last 20k to win 33k, so he's getting around 3:2. if you put the raisers 4 bet range at TT+ and AK...which is a reallllly tight range, you're just over 40% with AK, and need to get it in. a more accurate 4 bet range is probably 99+ and AQ+... DON'T FOLD
    170 2 
  11. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:16pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    not to mention, your 3 bet size is kind of small, so it makes it seem like you might fold to a 4 bet...even more of a chance villian is gonna shove a little wider. if he has AA or KK here and you lost, or he had JJ and you lost a flip, ul, gl next time
    170 2 
  12. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:21pm) in reply to jim5432

    "oh, and if you want to 3 bet and fold to a shove...just open fold next time, it's a way better line"

    And you could 3-bet/fold with ATC, correct?

    And what if villain flats and flop comes K83, are you check/folding or are ya'll (the pre-flop folders) now, for some reason, going to continue and go broke? If you are scared of AA/KK shouldn't you still be scared of AA/KK? What changed other than villain "disguising" his hand by flatting instead or shoving? If he is shoving shouldn't his range be wider than if he flats since he has fold equity?
  13. EddieO EddieO is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

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    Joined: May 07

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:28pm) in reply to Gags30

    This is a super snap call. The player 4 betting started the hand with 44k chips so he'd have 18k left if he lost an all in vs you. You are 3 betting out of the big blind which usually gets less respect, and there is almost 14k dead in the pot with almost 20k to call. In this situation I'm usually screaming for the guy to shove on me knowing I CRUSH his range. You cannot fold this hand, and it shouldn't take you more than .2 seconds to hit the call button
  14. fratzner fratzner is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

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    Joined: Dec 05

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:41pm) in reply to EddieO

    If you fold this, you ought to be punched in the face. People that say he must have AA or KK are ridiculous. At this point it doesn't matter, you can't 3 bet and fold impossible. I hope he had AK too. That would be about right.
     
  15. TheFirm53 TheFirm53 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:53pm) in reply to fratzner

    FTR i never advised him to fold, just following up on OP's original question. However this might be a spot to sit back ask your self wwhd (what would Helmuth do)?
  16. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    Jul 14th, 2008 (7/14/2008 3:58pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    This is a no brainer call, and never a fold as played.
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