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stars 70k hand...wwyd?

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  1. GPTBigGuy GPTBigGuy is offline

    United States

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:04pm)

    Had a discussion w/ a cple of ppl and just wanted to get some more opinons. What would you guys do here? Will give my thoughts on the hand after a couple of opinons.

    Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 1: kwninos (1605 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 2: River88 (6070 in chips)
    Seat 3: teamhensley (13715 in chips)
    Seat 4: tdub1111 (8065 in chips)
    Seat 5: flopminutz (1905 in chips)
    Seat 6: Subzero084 (3290 in chips)
    Seat 7: siglos78 (2185 in chips)
    Seat 8: stoneirish (490 in chips)
    Seat 9: HERO (10475 in chips)
    stoneirish: posts small blind 50
    buddhaSTACKS: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to HERO[Qh Ks]
    kwninos: folds
    River88: raises 200 to 300
    teamhensley: folds
    tdub1111: folds
    flopminutz: folds
    Subzero084: folds
    siglos78: folds
    stoneirish: calls 250
    HERO: calls 200
    *** FLOP *** [4s 5h Qc]
    stoneirish: checks
    HERO: bets 700
    River88: raises 1400 to 2100
    stoneirish: folds
    HERO: ?
  2. firaldo firaldo is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:05pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    I fold pre cos we end up in this situation too much

    as played I fold too
    394 
  3. tcstunna tcstunna is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:08pm) in reply to firaldo

    i wouldnt lead out...
    1
  4. UhhMee UhhMee is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:11pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    Doubt I ever lead-fold in a $26, so I shove. In this day and age, when someone leads into the pot, people immediately assume weakness. His x3 raise does look much stronger than if he raised, say, to 1800 or something, but I still will have trouble putting him on a 3-hand range of AQ/KK/AA so I would get it in. To add to that, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to shove and get snap-called and shown QJs Q10s Q9s because, assuming those are in his opening range pre, he is surely not flat-calling you or folding to you're lead.
    47 1
  5. Whatshoulditbe Whatshoulditbe is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:14pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    call pre is fine and the leadout is fine only if you aren't folding. Don't think we want to turn our flopped top pair into a bluff, so by leading i feel were not folding too much now. As played call his raise and let him get it in on the turn.
     
  6. MarleyGroup MarleyGroup is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:24pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    If youre leading here, then you should be going with your hand and getting it all. That being said I dont think you should ever really be leading here though, so I would play the whole hand differently.
     
  7. OnTheWiver99 OnTheWiver99 is offline

    Surrey
    Canada

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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:29pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    Without any sort of a read, I definitely look for a better spot given blinds/stack sizes.. pretty easy fold imo
  8. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

    IL
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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 10:52pm) in reply to OnTheWiver99

    I just muck pre. its so hard to get away when you actually only flop 1 pair sometimes.
  9. GPTBigGuy GPTBigGuy is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 1:57am) in reply to Adam013085

    muck pf is absurd. and are we forgetting that the BB is 100. also its not a 26 its the 70k on stars.

    so you guys think the proper range for UTG +1 is >KQ so I should be playing 100+ bb pot when I have a great stack @ this pt of the tourney?

    also my lead doesnt look weakish espec w/ my sizing imo
    Thread Starter
  10. SpewyNit SpewyNit is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 3:00am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    so wait, u led out to look strong?? that makes no sense since if u r then going to fold to a raise u may as well have air here. just chk/call flop reevaluate turn. as played dont fold
  11. elusively elusively is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 3:56am) in reply to SpewyNit

    folding preflop seems waaaaay nitty to me..

    if i'm leading, i'm either jamming or calling and gettign it on the turn, but i prefer to check/call
  12. d7o1d1s0 d7o1d1s0 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 4:04am) in reply to elusively

    i'd say there's nothing wrong at all with the call pf. I'd probably go for a c/c on this flop, quite literally cause by raising you put yourself in this spot. That way you can call a C-bet from the initial raiser and lead out on a safe turn. As played i guess i'd have to hope he's spewing with JJ-88 and shove.
  13. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 4:39am) in reply to d7o1d1s0

    c/c plz
     1
  14. Jax0910 Jax0910 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 7:31am) in reply to darkhawk-200

     
    Originally Posted by darkhawk-200 View Post

    c/c plz

    This

    I guess if u want to continue calling is better right? Allows him to carry on with his bluff range on the turn
  15. bazeman bazeman is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 9:05am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    ok.. first off, thats probably the worst line with top pair king kicker ever. you played it like a live player at hammond, indiana(also could use tunica, biloxi, oklahoma, etc) would. i would prob check call flop for value if i flat bb. def get some info by flatting flop and seeing what he does on turn too. check turn and either get it in or fold depending on his bet sizing and what your gut feels. you still have to play poker at some point and get a feel for the hand. its def not an easy spot for top pair at all. he has def shown stregnth and when people put in half there stack on flop almost they usually have something of value. however, since you lead flop (and this is a 50 dollar tourney people do play fast) i would prob shove. the trend these days is to raise any opponent who leads OOP after flatting preflop. he begins hand with 6k, and makes it 300 pre and 2100 on flop, so hes got 3600 behind after raise. if he does have you beat u still have 40bbs. i really think he could show up with qj/q10 or hero call 77-JJ here. he also could have air, which is justification for flat but cause of stack sizes i just get it in on flop.
     
  16. FabulousTexan FabulousTexan is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 10:00am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    I've been looking back at my hand history and seeing all the times I get myself in trouble with KQ.

    The way this hand is playing, I'm probably folding.

    It doesn't appear that he's afraid of the Q on the board. It doesn't look like he's playing 88-JJ. Maybe he's playing this with QJ or QT but it's hard to imagine him raising preflop from from early position.

    The hands that you're beating make less sense than the hands you're losing to.

    If you call this raise, what are you going to do on the turn? As the pot grows the decisions get even more difficult and it's harder to get away from.

    Thinking long term, do you really want to get 60% of your stack in with one pair and potential kicker problems?

    If you lay down the best hand, you still have over 9k in chips and can still play big stack poker. If you're wrong, you have a lot less flexibility.
  17. BLUEberLEEZ BLUEberLEEZ is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 10:01am) in reply to bazeman

    ck/call flop, ck turn and reevaluate.

    if you are not comfortable getting 60 bets in with top pair king/queen kicker...fold pre. nothin wrong at all with muckin it pre.

    as played it looks like youre destroyed but since your lead induces weak raises from hands he whiffs with, you have to shove.
    1
  18. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 10:25am) in reply to BLUEberLEEZ

     
    Originally Posted by Blueberleez View Post

    ck/call flop, ck turn and reevaluate.

    if you are not comfortable getting 60 bets in with top pair king/queen kicker...fold pre. nothin wrong at all with muckin it pre.

    as played it looks like youre destroyed but since your lead induces weak raises from hands he whiffs with, you have to shove.

    calling the raise with the intention of never folding seems like a far better decision
    Fold def seems like itd be best vs a rando.
     21
  19. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 10:32am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

     
    Originally Posted by GPTBigGuy View Post

    muck pf is absurd. and are we forgetting that the BB is 100. also its not a 26 its the 70k on stars.

    so you guys think the proper range for UTG +1 is >KQ so I should be playing 100+ bb pot when I have a great stack @ this pt of the tourney?

    also my lead doesnt look weakish espec w/ my sizing imo

    glad to hear you don't want any opinions on the hand...you clearly have a full grasp of the situation
    170 2 

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  20. ehumes06 ehumes06 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 11:20am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    i still can't stop laughing that you think "mucking it pre is absurd".... exactly why is this absurd??
  21. shane3769 shane3769 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 11:28am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    looks like this is another one of "those" threads where the poster refuses advice, but....
    flat pre is fine, check call flop, go from there. The lead out is pretty awful no matter what your intentions were
     
  22. TrueAce13 TrueAce13 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 11:30am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    by donking the flop we are getting raised here a ton by air as well. If you don't want to get it in on the flop, i think we have to c/c and re-evaluate other streets.

    As played, get it in
     
  23. Spraggs Spraggs is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 11:35am) in reply to GPTBigGuy

     
    Originally Posted by GPTBigGuy View Post

    muck pf is absurd

    not really!
    341 
  24. GPTBigGuy GPTBigGuy is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 12:08pm) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    glad to hear you don't want any opinions on the hand...you clearly have a full grasp of the situation

    I posted that to add to the debate so ppl could tell me I suck like bazeman did when he said I play the hand equivalent to a live pro in Hammond, In. (btw baze go eat some brownies)

    I c/c this flop 99% of the time but in this lil downer im on ive find myself playing so many over inflatted pots oop w marginal holdings and was very conscious of this last night and was jus trying to fix some leaks. (which obv the way I played the hand is a bigger leak then the way I played it previously)
    Thread Starter
  25. FabulousTexan FabulousTexan is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 2:40pm) in reply to BLUEberLEEZ

     
    Originally Posted by Blueberleez View Post

    if you are not comfortable getting 60 bets in with top pair king/queen kicker...fold pre. nothin wrong at all with muckin it pre.

    Excuse me while I print this out and tape it to my monitor.

    Way too often do I call with trap hands like KQ using the excuse, "but I have position! I can see the flop cheap." Then I have no idea where I am if I hit the flop and he shows real strength.
  26. 4sakenme 4sakenme is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 3:23pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    I think stoneirish flatting pre with only 190 behind adds an important dynamic to this hand. If your going to play KQo you should be reraising pre. Once you flat behind from the big blind, if stoneirish goes all-in from the sb for 190 into a 900 pot you will be in an awkward spot on nearly every flop.

    KQo is good enough to play for 4.9 bbs aipf against the shortie but doesn't play well postflop OOP for 60.7bbs. So, imo this is a spot to 3bet/fold or just fold pre.
  27. djkelly69 djkelly69 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2009 (11/25/2009 6:22pm) in reply to GPTBigGuy

    as above, hate the lead, c/c, c-eval turn ftw.

    as played, call now, check turn and let him shove his whole range.
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