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Step 5 (5 handed, correct push?)

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  1. mcc3504 mcc3504 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

    Posts: 92
    Joined: Oct 07

    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 2:17pm)

    only info i have on chamouth is that earlier in the sng the shortstack
    pushed utg for like 700 with blinds 50/100 i believe and someone else
    after pushed for 1300 then chamouth pushed his stack of about 1400 i believe with QQ and it
    held vs 66 and JJ.

    Seat 1: dippydough (985 in chips)
    Seat 5: ThreePocketA (1760 in chips)
    Seat 6: Chamouth (5190 in chips)
    Seat 7: mrs-nurse (3524 in chips)
    Seat 9: mcc3504 (2041 in chips)
    mcc3504: posts small blind 75
    dippydough: posts big blind 150
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mcc3504 [As Kh]
    ThreePocketA: folds
    Chamouth: raises 450 to 600
    mrs-nurse: folds
    mcc3504: raises 1441 to 2041 and is all-in
    dippydough: folds
    Chamouth: calls 1441

    Chamouth called with <span><span>(</span>44<span>) <---highlight to see Chamouth's hand</span></span>

    after looking back on this I am leaning towards a fold,my reasoning for a fold is that dippy is low and places 3 and 4 get there buying back for this step 5 and 5th only gets a seat to step 4. Do you think i shoudl have just waited b/c theres a good chance dippy will go out before me then i am just freerolling it for a step 6 seat? I have asked a friend I think is very knowledgable and trusted and he thinks I have to push and that the result may be swaying my opinion of the fold being better. Would like to know what you guys think. Thanks.
  2. Bobmurphy Bobmurphy is offline

    Lawrence, KS
    United States

    Posts: 224
    Joined: Jul 07

    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 2:22pm) in reply to mcc3504

    I would say correct push, I'm not much a numbers guy on the steps strategy, but I mean assuming you're playing to win. Pushing AK is the correct play, his call is questionable, I would say he should have laid it down.
  3. dippydough dippydough is offline

    Fitchburg, MA
    United States

    Posts: 2,970
    Joined: Mar 05

    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 2:36pm) in reply to Bobmurphy

    nice stack dippy.

    edit- i would talk about the hand, but i have no idea what the correct play is. im pretty sure im getting them in there with AK tho.

    also- that 1st hand u talked about. someone shoved 700 UTG or UTG+1 with 66, a good player flat called with JJ with about 2k in chips, and then he shoved QQ with about 2500 in chips, JJ calls.
     
  4. devinmcd11 devinmcd11 is offline

    Florence, SC
    United States

    Posts: 865
    Joined: Apr 07

    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 2:44pm) in reply to mcc3504

    hes never folding there imo
  5. kle18 kle18 is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 651
    Joined: Aug 05

    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:07pm) in reply to mcc3504

    easy push.
  6. Frank1The1Tank Frank1The1Tank is offline

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:16pm) in reply to mcc3504

    You're never folding AK 5 handed imo. Do you think he open folds AQ there? AJ? Results oriented to think a fold is correct there.
     
  7. TheVillageGrinder TheVillageGrinder is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,970
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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:30pm) in reply to Bobmurphy

    I think that your push was correct there. If you elect to fold that hand its likely that you'll be pushing with a lot worse later, especially if the short guy manages to double up.

    ONe problem is that you had no FE. Considering that the villian led out with such a big bet he pretty much had to call your shove. And since he was getting 2 to 1, that 's enough to call.

    If you double up there your in real good shape to advance.
  8. camate camate is offline

    Medina, OH
    United States

    Posts: 222
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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:38pm) in reply to Frank1The1Tank

    don't you have to factor in that villian is first in and he is going to call your shove everytime? I mean A K is still a draw hand and you have to think your racing. If you get it all in before his raise thats different. I think the chips you chance to loose is worth more then you have to gain.
    I hate to but I fold here.

    Where's Jennifear when you need her?
  9. Stu Hunger Stu Hunger is offline

    Enniskillen
    United Kingdom

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:47pm) in reply to mcc3504

    This is a standard push imo. Even the tightest of players still are opening a pretty wide range there and your fold equity, however small, is still non-zero.
  10. kmil420 kmil420 is offline

    Los Altos, CA
    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 3:57pm) in reply to Stu Hunger

    do you call off here if villian open pushes?
  11. mav09 mav09 is offline

    OH
    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 4:02pm) in reply to Frank1The1Tank

    correct me if i am wrong (one thing you can always count on p5s members for, lol) but cards really don't matter when you are talking about correct push/fold strategy. If it is correct strategy to push at certain times no matter what you have, then it also has to be correct to fold at certain times, no matter what you have.

    I am not saying it is easy, but I think if I am not the first in the pot this late in the sng, then I am folding a lot of hands. AK makes it tough fold, but meh. anyone else agree?
  12. Stu Hunger Stu Hunger is offline

    Enniskillen
    United Kingdom

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 4:29pm) in reply to kmil420

    Yes.
  13. TheVillageGrinder TheVillageGrinder is offline

    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 4:31pm) in reply to mav09

    Yes, there are a lot of hands that I would fold but AK is prolly not one of them.
  14. kmil420 kmil420 is offline

    Los Altos, CA
    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 4:35pm) in reply to Stu Hunger

    Given the payout, I'm pretty sure this is a fold if villian open pushes.
  15. fstick77 fstick77 is offline

    Long Beach, CA
    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 5:48pm) in reply to mcc3504

    Play to win baby!! Unless you knew without a doubt that you were getting a premium pair within the next few hands you push this real good. Yeah Baby!! And then do a line of coke after
  16. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

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    Mar 18th, 2008 (3/18/2008 6:15pm) in reply to mcc3504

    This is a pretty clear fold.

    The cutoff can profitably shove:

    <TABLE class=simple cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=3 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>CO</TD><TD><TD><TD>47.2%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K5o+ Q3s+ Q9o+ J5s+ J9o+ T6s+ T8o+ 96s+ 98o 85s+ 75s+ 64s+ 54s </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    ...even with mrs-nurse (23 BBs) yet to act.

    Against that range, assuming he is calling when you shove (a very safe assumption), you can call with:

    <TABLE class=simple cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=3 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>SB</TD><TD><TD>2.6%, TT+ AKs </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    I think that 4x raise is designed to say "I'm calling anyone except for mrs-nurse".

    I think he is raising much, much less than he is supposed to, and therefore you should also call with less than you are "supposed to". Therefore, your TT+, AKs optimal calling range is too loose.

    http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...amp;s8=&s9=

    The chips you stand to lose are worth considerably less than the chips you stand to win.

    Therefore, this is a fold.

    One exception: This is a shove if and only if you have seen him raise 4xBB then fold to a shove when he is priced in.
  17. mclaughlin04 mclaughlin04 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

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    Mar 19th, 2008 (3/19/2008 12:35pm) in reply to Jennifear

    i still dont see how this is a fold if youre playing to advance to step 6...
  18. camate camate is offline

    Medina, OH
    United States

    Posts: 222
    Joined: Feb 07

    Mar 19th, 2008 (3/19/2008 1:34pm) in reply to mclaughlin04

    ^^^ that's precisely why you fold
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