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Step 6a (lvl 2) - QQ

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  1. spankybabes spankybabes is offline

    Posts: 216
    Joined: Jan 06

    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 3:53am)

    im curious what people do here. Play so far has been as all around nitty as you would expect.

    pokerstars Game #xxxxxxxxxxx: Tournament #64999889, $2000+$100 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/10/23 - 23:39:01 (ET)
    Table '64999889 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: brainwash (3060 in chips)
    Seat 2: Bonds252525 (2920 in chips)
    Seat 3: spence79 (3040 in chips)
    Seat 4: BLUEANDWHITE (3075 in chips)
    Seat 5: Not In Class (2970 in chips)
    Seat 6: gator93 (2930 in chips)
    Seat 7: pigarco (2885 in chips)
    Seat 8: magic032 (2935 in chips)
    Seat 9: Livin on Luk (3185 in chips)
    brainwash: posts small blind 15
    Bonds252525: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to spence79 [Qd Qc]
    spence79: raises 70 to 100
    BLUEANDWHITE: folds
    Not In Class: folds
    gator93: calls 100
    pigarco: folds
    magic032: folds
    Livin on Luk: calls 100
    brainwash: folds
    Bonds252525: calls 70
    *** FLOP *** [7c 9h 3d]
    Bonds252525: bets 210
    spence79: ?
  2. bikocruz bikocruz is offline

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    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 4:26am) in reply to spankybabes

    lol
  3. philsteal philsteal is offline

    Auckland
    New Zealand

    Posts: 34
    Joined: Sep 07

    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 6:05am) in reply to bikocruz

    Seems weird.

    I would raise call shove, but that's cos the SNGS i play, the decimal point is in a different place in the buy-in amount.

    Or cos its deep stacked call and reevaluate the turn.

    I guess raising on that flop is standard tho right?
  4. Jack_Diamondz Jack_Diamondz is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 183
    Joined: Apr 07

    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 9:25am) in reply to spankybabes

    415 in the pot. 210 Looks like a bet to find out where he is.

    I'd call and see how many follow, looking to make a strong bet/raise on the turn.
  5. peldini peldini is offline

    Winnipeg
    Canada

    Posts: 248
    Joined: May 06

    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 10:39am) in reply to spankybabes

    i raise to 600 right now and find out all i need to know. this still leaves 2300 behind so you are not hurtin
  6. djelove djelove is offline

    Billerica, MA
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 12:13pm) in reply to spankybabes

    i think either play is good - Bonds is a tricky player so could be betting anything here, and it's a good spot to bet out since the flop is so raggy it probably hasn't hit anyone. plus, if I were him and had something like 9-7 or a set, i don't think i would bet a multi-player flop, again because the board is not scary. a flat-call is ok because there is not really any card that can come on the turn that scares you short of an Ace - no flush draw and the straight draws are not good either. then you can let him bet the turn, push, and get a little more value from your hand. that being said i am more likely to reraise the flop to 500-600 - there is 600+ in the pot right now and at this point in the sitngo I will take the 600 chips straight off and be fine with it. and if he pushes over top i still have room to fold, although I would be hard-pressed to do so.
  7. spankybabes spankybabes is offline

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    Oct 24th, 2007 (10/24/2007 10:40pm) in reply to spankybabes

    i folded:

    *** FLOP *** [7c 9h 3d]
    Bonds252525: bets 210
    spence79: folds
    gator93: folds
    Livin on Luk: folds
    Bonds252525 collected 415 from pot
    Thread Starter
  8. bikocruz bikocruz is offline

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    Oct 25th, 2007 (10/25/2007 4:09am) in reply to spankybabes

    *crickets*
    I think you just killed all the ppl in HA from shock w/ that fold spanky
  9. King_Shalot King_Shalot is offline

    Dover
    United Kingdom

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    Oct 25th, 2007 (10/25/2007 11:15am) in reply to spankybabes

    The guy leading out could have a number of hands. Smells like 8 10, 6 8 or A9 to me, one of the three. Perhaps he has a smaller pp like 88 or 66, but its fair to say 210 is a bet to find out where he stands so a raise to asomething between 600 and 750 would be preferable in my opinion.
  10. buckiz6 buckiz6 is offline

    United States

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    Joined: Jan 06

    Oct 25th, 2007 (10/25/2007 4:03pm) in reply to spankybabes

    If that was me leading into an under the gun raiser and 2 other callers I would only be doing so with a hand that I planned to 3 bet all in. (97, 33, 77, 99) I still probably call if I am you and reevaluate on the turn with no reads.
  11. spankybabes spankybabes is offline

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    Oct 25th, 2007 (10/25/2007 10:17pm) in reply to spankybabes

    My range for opening utg here is AA-QQ, AK. Bonds might think JJ is in my range as well but that doesn't have any effect on the hand.

    Given that bonds is a reasonable player his lead here almost has to be a set. A weaker hand he would either check-fold or check-raise. He can't expect me to fold an overpair so is probably planning a 3 bet AI, rather than check-raising and giving me a chance to get away.

    On top of this I have two people to act behind.

    Calling to evaluate on the turn when almost every card makes my hand worse can't be good. Raising planning to fold can't be good either. Raising planning to call a 3 bet AI has to be awful.

    The fold seemed fairly obvious at the time, and the 1st friend I showed it to agreed. I sent the entire HH to a couple of people I coach and they were both shocked by the hand tho, which is why i posted it.

    (In an MTT I probably continue with the hand because everyone's ranges are wider)

    buck - if ur ranging him like that why call?
    Thread Starter
  12. buckiz6 buckiz6 is offline

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    Oct 26th, 2007 (10/26/2007 12:47am) in reply to spankybabes

    You should have included that you thought Bonds was a reasonable player in the original hand history. The range I originally gave was what I would have if I had played the hand the way he had (if he is doing what we think and planning to bet/3bet) I said to call and reevaluate because I do not know how he plays and even losing 210 of your stack will not drastically affect you if you decide to fold on the turn. The more I think about it though the more I hate the situation in general. You realize how exploitable you are if you take this line every time.
  13. buckiz6 buckiz6 is offline

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    Oct 26th, 2007 (10/26/2007 12:56am) in reply to buckiz6

    What I mean is that I make the same fold here as you (given the Bonds is solid) the vast majority of the time, but I would not post it and it is not something I would want other people knowing.
  14. donkkkkk donkkkkk is offline

    Canada

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    Oct 26th, 2007 (10/26/2007 9:35pm) in reply to spankybabes

    I don't see how you can fold QQ here, how can you be afraid of one bet on the flop? I mean you're playing this sit n go to win, therfore you can't just be folding QQ here on the flop. I don't think he would bet a set right here, he would prob. Check-call or CR you. I would probably put in a raise right here, I mean that is just weak to give up on the flop like that.
  15. spankybabes spankybabes is offline

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    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 12:16am) in reply to donkkkkk

    leading the set is far superior with these stack sizes and my likely range as long as he doesn't think I can fold an overpair to one bet. His goal is (or should be) to get my whole stack in the middle not one more bet.

    So you raise intending to do what if he reraises? Or if he calls and leads again on the turn (and most turns make your hand worse)?

    The point is that it isn't just one bet here. If i keep playing it's probably gonna cost me my stack the times I'm behind and I'm not guaranteed to win much more than his bet the times I'm ahead.

    Also what range could you have as bonds here? He's leading into 3 other players including an utg raiser and gator's initial cc. Being early in a step6a everyone's ranges are tighter than they would be normally.

    Obviously I'm playing to maximise my equity in the tournament - with 66% of the prize pool in 1st that usually means "playing to win". But that a) doesn't mean you should put ur chips in in horrible situations or b) even gamble on a pure coin flip (without pot overlay)

    The multiple bubbles in these step 6a are pure gold. While they're almost meaningless against better players, they are very real to the level 1 entry players for whom each $500 represents a considerable chunk of their bankroll. Picking on the right people gave several plus ev almost-ATC situations later on in the tournament.
    Thread Starter
  16. totimer totimer is offline

    Edmonton
    Canada

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    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 3:08am) in reply to spankybabes

    gf bonds is a p5er who has good results and hes not leading with out a hand there and if he made a play by betting into both of you than so be it
    cuz he could lead tt of 99 to see if you have a hand i think a 2.5 raise would probably be the best move if u think hes weak but if u get a raise or call ur done with the hand
  17. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 8:18pm) in reply to totimer

    You cant just put him on a set and fold here. Calling is better than folding but my play would be to raise.
    91 12
  18. thebawler thebawler is offline

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    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 11:55pm) in reply to stevie444

    how about putting in a small raise on the flop and shutting down???? If he continues in the hand you can then put him on a set......but I just dont think that one bet=set in that spot
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