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Straight and flush draws

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  1. boozhwaa boozhwaa is offline

    Matawan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,091
    Joined: Jan 05

    Feb 21st, 2010 (2/21/2010 10:53pm)

    I basically busted out of the Sunday Million tonight with 89 of spades on a 56Q flop with two spades. I took a lot of heat for the play from the rail, so i would like to know if i played it badly and how i should play in similar situations in the future. I know my no limit tournament game has a ton of holes, so any advice would be appreciated. Here's the hand:

    <pre>pokerstars Game #40135936601: Tournament #285020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (15000/30000) - 2010/02/21 23:30:10 ET
    Table '285020010 2225' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: boozhwaa (808274 in chips)
    Seat 2: renaldo81b (369655 in chips)
    Seat 3: Pimpi1965 (791284 in chips)
    Seat 4: rootboyslim (1276420 in chips)
    Seat 5: Dillinger2 (1126596 in chips)
    Seat 6: tazys91 (911263 in chips)
    Seat 7: infany77 (113730 in chips)
    Seat 9: strflushtome (729146 in chips)
    boozhwaa: posts the ante 3000
    renaldo81b: posts the ante 3000
    Pimpi1965: posts the ante 3000
    rootboyslim: posts the ante 3000
    Dillinger2: posts the ante 3000
    tazys91: posts the ante 3000
    infany77: posts the ante 3000
    strflushtome: posts the ante 3000
    boozhwaa: posts small blind 15000
    renaldo81b: posts big blind 30000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to boozhwaa [8s 9s]
    Pimpi1965: folds
    mauroleocast is connected
    rootboyslim: folds
    Dillinger2: folds
    tazys91: folds
    infany77: folds
    strflushtome: raises 32250 to 62250
    boozhwaa: calls 47250
    renaldo81b: calls 32250
    *** FLOP *** [5s Qs 6h]
    strflushtome said, "goed plan joep"
    boozhwaa: checks
    renaldo81b: checks
    strflushtome: bets 115500
    boozhwaa: raises 235500 to 351000
    renaldo81b: folds
    strflushtome: raises 312896 to 663896 and is all-in
    boozhwaa: calls 312896
    Pappe_Ruk [observer] said, "holddddddddddd"
    boss_bobo [observer] said, "holdddddddddddd"
    *** TURN *** [5s Qs 6h] [Kc]
    *** RIVER *** [5s Qs 6h Kc] [4h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    boozhwaa: shows [8s 9s] (high card King)
    strflushtome: shows [As 3s] (high card Ace)
    strflushtome collected 1538542 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 1538542 | Rake 0
    Board [5s Qs 6h Kc 4h]
    Seat 1: boozhwaa (small blind) showed [8s 9s] and lost with high card King
    Seat 2: renaldo81b (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 3: Pimpi1965 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: rootboyslim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Dillinger2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: tazys91 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: infany77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: strflushtome (button) showed [As 3s] and won (1538542) with high card Ace</pre>
  2. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 21st, 2010 (2/21/2010 10:58pm) in reply to boozhwaa

    I'd probably 3-bet pre if I thought the button raise from the villain was weak. As played preflop, I like the play on the flop. You figure you probably have 12 outs, which makes it about 50/50. As it turned out, you had 18 outs, so you were actually a favorite to take this down.
     969 
  3. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

    Posts: 727
    Joined: Jan 08

    Feb 21st, 2010 (2/21/2010 11:03pm) in reply to tyson219

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    As it turned out, you had 18 outs, so you were actually a favorite to take this down.

    Or 3. Don't mind getting it in though.

    edit: I failed too.
  4. boozhwaa boozhwaa is offline

    Matawan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,091
    Joined: Jan 05

    Feb 21st, 2010 (2/21/2010 11:09pm) in reply to odstore

    Thanks, that's what i was thinking when i made the play. It ended up being 9 outs, since he had just the flush draw himself. It was such a huge spot for me, the Sunday Million is sooo far out of my bankroll. I'll sleep better now ;-)
    Thread Starter
  5. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 22nd, 2010 (2/22/2010 11:53pm) in reply to boozhwaa

    I don't know how you figure you're a favorite. Your math is confusing?
    Hold'em Simulation
    <span>990 trials (Exhaustive)</span>
    board: 5s Qs 6h
    <table border="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th>Hand</th><th>Pot equity</th><th>Wins</th><th>Ties</th></tr><tr><td>8s9s</td><td>29.29%</td><td>290</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>As3s</td><td>70.71%</td><td>700</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>

    Looks like you're a 70:30 dog.

    Are you one of the players that think getting it in behind is +EV b/c of suck-out equity.
  6. Jonny113 Jonny113 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

    Posts: 20
    Joined: Jun 09

    Feb 23rd, 2010 (2/23/2010 1:13pm) in reply to boozhwaa

    Only thing i would have done differently would prob be to 3bet pre to around 185k since the button is most likely opening ATC if folded to him at these levels...Do you have any reads on this villain at all that would make a light 3bet pre -EV??? As played on the flop I like the C/R and committing yourself to get it in, it was just UL that he had the same flush draw as you which took away a lot of your outs, I mean if you're against AQ or KQ you're def a favorite on that flop...

    So basically what I'm wondering is what was your read on this villain prior to this hand?? Has he been pretty LAG? you should be noticing since hes to your direct right
  7. boozhwaa boozhwaa is offline

    Matawan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,091
    Joined: Jan 05

    Feb 23rd, 2010 (2/23/2010 9:48pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post


    I don't know how you figure you're a favorite. Your math is confusing?

    I never claimed to be the favorite? So confuzzled.
    Thread Starter
  8. boozhwaa boozhwaa is offline

    Matawan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,091
    Joined: Jan 05

    Feb 23rd, 2010 (2/23/2010 10:00pm) in reply to Jonny113

     
    Originally Posted by Jonny113 View Post


    So basically what I'm wondering is what was your read on this villain prior to this hand?? Has he been pretty LAG? you should be noticing since hes to your direct right

    I didn't have much of a read on him. I don't think we'd been playing together for long. There wasn't much random button raising at my tables, it folded to me a lot in my small blinds. I had an idea he would call a reasonable 3bet with most of his raising hands, but that may have been more fear than true read. Tournament hold'em is very much not my game, so i didn't want to risk many chips preflop with 9 high and be first to act when he called. A 3bet plus continuation bet would have been about half my chips.
    Thread Starter
  9. Jonny113 Jonny113 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

    Posts: 20
    Joined: Jun 09

    Feb 23rd, 2010 (2/23/2010 10:19pm) in reply to boozhwaa

     
    Originally Posted by boozhwaa View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Jonny113 View Post


    So basically what I'm wondering is what was your read on this villain prior to this hand?? Has he been pretty LAG? you should be noticing since hes to your direct right

    I didn't have much of a read on him. I don't think we'd been playing together for long. There wasn't much random button raising at my tables, it folded to me a lot in my small blinds. I had an idea he would call a reasonable 3bet with most of his raising hands, but that may have been more fear than true read. Tournament hold'em is very much not my game, so i didn't want to risk many chips preflop with 9 high and be first to act when he called. A 3bet plus continuation bet would have been about half my chips.

    I mean yeah it would have been about half your chips, but wouldn't it have been the same result that way? You still prob would be getting it in on the flop.. I feel like you should be the aggressor against people from late position. You also could have just folded but I don't like giving up a hand like 89suited when the blinds and antes are that high, and plus if he 4bet shoves on you, you could have just folded there..He should be folding a lot of hands on the button if you 3bet him A3 suited being one of them
  10. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 24th, 2010 (2/24/2010 2:06pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post

    I don't know how you figure you're a favorite. Your math is confusing?
    Hold'em Simulation
    <span>990 trials (Exhaustive)</span>
    board: 5s Qs 6h
    <table border="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th>Hand</th><th>Pot equity</th><th>Wins</th><th>Ties</th></tr><tr><td>8s9s</td><td>29.29%</td><td>290</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>As3s</td><td>70.71%</td><td>700</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>

    Looks like you're a 70:30 dog.

    Are you one of the players that think getting it in behind is +EV b/c of suck-out equity.

    That is just wrong. You don't calculate the odds of your hand versus his hand after you've seen his card. You calculate with your hand versus his assigned range of hands. If you assume you have ~12 outs -- flush draw + gut shot, then it's about even.
     969 
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