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strange situation in Tunica

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  1. shiZZa shiZZa is offline

    Alpharetta, GA
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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:34am)

    during my last trip to tunica the following situation arose at about 4am at the Horseshoe. in a 1/2 NL game 6 handed i raise early pos with Ah4h and all fold but BB [drunk calling station] flop comes Jh6h7c. i made a decent bet and get called. black 2 turns. i put him on a draw and bet the rest of his chips [wasn't much left]. Kd rivers. immediately the drunk says "there's no way i can win this" and mucks his cards. i lay my cards in the middle of the table and go to rake the $85. the player to my left [out of the hand] happens to be a dealer and goldstrike and knows the dealer at our table and gets her to stop play and says that i have to show my hand. the other guy reaches in the muck to produce a 32os. i argued respectfully that since the pot was surrendered to me with no contest that i do not have to show my hand. it gets heated and the guy acts like a jerk. the poker manager gets called and they eventually agreed that i had to show my hand--i didn't want an experienced player to my left knowing how i played the hand as i had a very tight image. the mucked hand was considered dead but they said that rules state for some reason i guess winning hand of showdown must be shown even if other player mucks. opinions? is this the correct cash game ruling?
  2. JechtSphere JechtSphere is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:42am) in reply to shiZZa

    Yeah I think it is, actually. I could be wrong, but he mucked, his cards are dead, you won the pot, but I'm still confident you have to show the winning hand. Again, I could be wrong.
  3. shiZZa shiZZa is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:48am) in reply to JechtSphere

    i'm pretty sure the ruling was correct. i just think it is odd [i think it has to do with cheating and such]. the biggest deal was how much of a jerk the player was that stopped the play. i didn't want to show and he got all loud and disrespectful and all i said was i'd like to call the floor to make sure. his dealer friend [who was also very rude] rolled her eyes and sighed like i was being ridiculous. was that a bad request of me? i'm not excited about showing my first bluff since i had been stealing a bunch of pots last couple of hands--i was trying to keep the tight image.
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  4. TR1N1TY TR1N1TY is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:57am) in reply to shiZZa

    No way....a muck is a muck. You got royally hosed man. I had to read this 3 times before I started this post. Same shit happened to me at Hustler in L.A. last year when I mucked A/9os into a side pot and tried to plead my case for the muck when I would have won a 200 dollar side pot.

    My God the guy mucked...period end of story you don't need to show SHIT....fuckin ripoff man. I sure as hell hope you dragged it.
  5. TR1N1TY TR1N1TY is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:59am) in reply to TR1N1TY

    the guy MUCKED...period, end of story, game over, gimme a fucking break......no WAY there should even be a ruling here. ship the man the cheese
  6. mesaplayeraz mesaplayeraz is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 5:08am) in reply to shiZZa

    That guys cards are mucked, therefore dead cards! You should have been awarded the money. I cant imagine a place allowing mucked cards to be brought back into play. If they have this rule then that is total BS.
  7. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 5:18am) in reply to TR1N1TY

    If a hand reaches showdown, you have to show a winning hand to collect the pot.
     
  8. beanie beanie is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 6:00am) in reply to mesaplayeraz

    GambleAB is right, if you watch me play I hold my cards until I am pushed the pot, the reason is more than once these situations have come up. It is your responsibility to guard your hand. If you leave the decisions up to the floor well guess what, a lot of the times they have no fuckin clue.

    Let me give you an example, my buddy shows one card to a guy and the dealer makes him show both, that is the rules at this card room so I can see it though my friend was upset. Dealer change, guy shows the guy next to him that he did indeed have the set he was representing, a guy from across the table says "what did you have" and the guy refused. Of course, my friend made an issue of it and he was so confident, as was I, that the guys hand was supposed to be exposed he bet a moron $100 that this was the case (the guy was clearly a moron because he was there when my friend had to show his hand for supposingly needling with one card). Floor is caller over and the floor says that no the hand does not need to be shown.

    THIS TYPE OF SHIT DRIVES ME THROUGH THE FUCKIN ROOF. It happened at the WSOP just at my tables at least 10 times where the floor made the wrong ruling. Why do I know it was the wrong ruling? Because it is my fuckin job to.

    There are many good dealers and if you are a good dealer this has to frustrate you as much as it does me. Floorpeople and Dealers are trained like shit and don't know simple rules.

    Long story short if you are going to play poker serious you should know the rules and make sure you don't leave much to chance, if you do, don't be surprised if some numbnuts makes a ruling against you based on nothing more than you are being obstinate.
  9. jaceyn jaceyn is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 10:19am) in reply to GambleAB

    As I understand it though, the hand never actually reached showdown because he mucked his hand.

    You have the only live cards left in the hand, thus you win and there's no need to show.

    I've been in this situation before and never had to show, and was never even asked to show.

    EDIT- Upon rereading I see that he was never pushed the pot, always hold on to your cards until you are pushed the pot. I still think you should not be required to show however.
  10. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 10:24am) in reply to beanie

    You'd think with all the money at stake in the WSOP they would hire a competent staff to make sure everyone's interests are protected. Seriously, how hard is it to learn the rules to the game?
  11. CFH Rebel CFH Rebel is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 10:40am) in reply to shiZZa

    Happened at the bellagio not long ago in which a lot of pros were dumbfounded by the response. To win you have to show you hand. No matter who was doing the betting or anything. Lets say villain bluffs, you make a great call and he insta mucks when you call. He can still ask to see your hand before you get pushed the money. Very strange but true, def. through me off when i thappened.
  12. TheWacoKidd TheWacoKidd is offline haters gonna hate

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 10:53am) in reply to jtown1010

    I had a dealer this year at the WSOP that had never dealt hold em before, swear to science...

    I sign up as an alternate and they put all 10 ppl in a row in the line at 1 table, so like 3 scandavians that came together and Eric Frolich and his buddy are all on the same table with me... then we sit down and the dealer says "ok so what game is this? I've only deal black jack, but I have seen this one on tv"

    my jaw dropped I could not fucking believe it, needless to say we had to help this guy out alot and he was slow as shit, luckily the table broke in an hour or so, but gah it was gross...
     1
  13. MadTiger MadTiger is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 10:57am) in reply to TheWacoKidd

    Fold all but AA, KK, and AK.

    Sip beverage.

    Listen to iPod, etc.

    Wait for SOS to be answered.
  14. shiZZa shiZZa is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 1:40pm) in reply to TR1N1TY

    let's make sure we are clear. the other guy mucked and his hand was ruled dead. period. the situation was whether or not i had to show my cards to get the pot. i won the hand either way they just made me flip my cards. even tho the guy reached into the muck his hand was ruled dead [he had 3 or 4 hi, who cares]. what is the reasoning for this rule?

    also, i wouldn't have been asked to show if it weren't for the jerk sitting to the left of me [who wasn't even in the hand--he just thought i was bluffing and wanted to see it]
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  15. az1969 az1969 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 1:44pm) in reply to shiZZa

    I'm confused. If you put him all in on the turn, aren't both hands live to the river, and you both show at the end?
  16. shiZZa shiZZa is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 1:51pm) in reply to az1969

    they are live, however, if you are a drunk moron you may muck if you're first to show...lol. he mucked instead of flipping over 4 hi saying "there's no way i can win this." what would have happened however if i just threw my cards in the muck after he did. someone has to get the pot,,,seriously can they really MAKE me show? this ruling really bothered me.
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  17. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 1:55pm) in reply to jaceyn

    "Showdown" is when the river is dealt and the action has comenced. As the river was dealt, and there was no action, a hand must be tabled in order to win the pot.
     
  18. beanie beanie is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:03pm) in reply to shiZZa

    moral of the story is don't leave your fate to a moron floor guy (please don't flame me, i am certainly not saying all floor guys are morons, just most of em.)

    Obviously I am kidding
  19. sketchy1 sketchy1 is offline Dangerzone

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 3:58pm) in reply to GambleAB

    correct, but if another player has mucked, then there is no need for a showdown.

    however, if a hand is pulled out of the muck (as it shouldn't) and is tabled, then the correct ruling was made--you must open your hand, since he has shown a hand down. if you cannot win then you cannot claim the pot.

    the real issue is pulling the hand out of the muck which should NEVER happen.
      

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  20. N42MUCH N42MUCH is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 4:13pm) in reply to shiZZa

    Has anyone else heard someone cry so much about winning while playing like shit? A5s, can't blame you there even though its a po po hand, but to keep betting into a drunk calling station with a bad hand...and then winning when you shouldn't have...I'd STFU and be happy with the poker/beer Gods for shinning on me.
  21. SBRounder SBRounder is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2006 (11/11/2006 5:24pm) in reply to N42MUCH

    This is a pretty easy situation to disect. Gamble AB is wrong, you do not HAVE to table a hand to win the pot in a cash game. (there may be a small amount of clubs with different House Rules OBV) However if a hand is called, even if one players kills his own hand, any player at the table has the right to ask to see the hand. I have won countless pots when I call someone on the river and they muck their hand immediately, but I have also had to show my hand when someone asksto see it. A tournament is obviously different, but in a cash game the last live hand takes the pot, and unless someone asks to see the hand, you shouldnt have to show your hand to take the pot. There is an example of this in High Stakes Poker 2 when Minh Ly bets a busted draw on the riv and Phil Laak calls him with a set of tens. Minh immediately mucks his Q high once he is called, and after that Phil mucks his hand and the dealer pushes him the pot. Then Daniel Negreanu asks to see the hand, and because he asked, Laak had to turn up the cards. This is why, in Tunica, the hand was foreced to be shown, but there was no question about who won the pot...
     
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