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Strategy Question

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  1. jimmyk01 jimmyk01 is offline

    Posts: 154
    Joined: Jun 06

    May 8th, 2008 (5/8/2008 10:28am)

    A friend and I were discussing poker strategy and through our conversation we ended up talking about how to play a flush draw with a middle pair against one player. I'll give you an example, recently I was playing a live sng and it was in level two and i had about 2200 chips (starting stack was 2000), I get K 8 of diamonds on the big blind, one player i mid position min raised. The player had been fairly active so his range was fairly big, everyone folded around to me, I called the additional 100 and the flop comes out Ad Ks 3d, so I have middle pair and the flush draw. I check and the player bets out 400, so at this point I have to risk a quarter of my stack against a fairly loose player if I want to call. This would put me at about 16 bb's with blinds going up in a couple minutes. I figure with my hand I've got 13 outs because if a king, eight or diamond hits I assume I have him beat, as at best I put him on an ace.

    Now, this is where my decision has to be made, logically since I am probably behind in this hand although not by much as I've got so many outs the options are either fold or push. But, as I am going over my options I figure that if I do push I am not going to scare him out because he seemed like a player who wouldn't fold an ace with a weak kicker. However, if by chance he was playing an under pair which was also possible I would scare him out and not extract any more chips. So, I figure that there is no equity in pushing as I am either going to get called while behind and have to catch or my opponent will end up having tried to bluff me out and then just fold and again I earn no more equity. So, my decision was to just call. The turn comes up a blank, my opponent bets another 700, I call, the river comes out with my diamond and I then push the rest of my chips in and at this point I am pretty sure he's got the ace, he calls after a minute and I double up and cripple the player.

    So, how do you guys feel about this strategy? You probably can't apply it as well to tighter or better players, however if you get a loose player that you can do this against I think it's the best way to play the hand, because unless you are gonna fold after the flop you are gonna get all of your chips in one way or the other, might as well try and maximize your return.
  2. drewmas7 drewmas7 is offline

    Louisville, KY
    United States

    Posts: 912
    Joined: Apr 05

    May 8th, 2008 (5/8/2008 10:59am) in reply to jimmyk01

    Fold pre. You aren't deep enough to call OOP, min-raise or not.

    As played, check/shove flop.
  3. qjuice14 qjuice14 is offline

    Posts: 3,990
    Joined: Aug 07

    May 8th, 2008 (5/8/2008 11:17am) in reply to jimmyk01

    I think there are a lot of holes in your overall strategy.

    1.)when you are 20bb's deep, I wouldn't advocate playing k8s for 2.5:1 odds out of position. It just won't be profitable. The exception would be if you are certain you can out play him preflop. Honestly, shoving is probably a better option against an active preflop player that you say is capable of laying down.

    2.) after the flop comes out AdKx3d you check and the player bets standard cont. bet of 400. At this point you need to shove all in. You are have essentially hit your miracle flop for k8s and you have to get max value out of it. Most ofyour value in this spot comes from your fold equity on a semi-bluff. You have 14 outs also, not 13.

    3.) Your logic for calling is so flawed. You don't see any value in reraising? You do have fold equity, and by reraising you can possibly get a weak ace to fold. In the instance you mention if he has a mid pair and you won't be able to extract enough value out of him is also terribly flawed. If he has a mid pair he does 1 of 2 things. Shutsdown in which you receive no addition value unless he hits his set and then you lose a big pot. Or, even worse for you, he continues to bet and you go on to miss your flush and then you looking at the river having to call 800-1000 for allyour chips w/ a weak king have to fold the best hand. By calling you give information away about your hand while earning no real information on his hand.

    In summary w/ these stacks

    preflop: fold=push>call

    flop: shove>>>>>>>>>call and folding is not an option if you decided to play this hand.

    turn: i really don't have a lot of advice b/c there is absolutely no way you should have made it to this street w/ any chips in your stack.

    river: of course you have to get it in now.
     
  4. SpauldingSmails SpauldingSmails is offline

    Forestdale, MA
    United States

    Posts: 327
    Joined: Jun 07

    May 8th, 2008 (5/8/2008 11:48am) in reply to qjuice14

    push/fold on the flop as played... flatting is so spewy.
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