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Stupid 20r river spot

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  1. jtj03 jtj03 is offline

    Malta

    Posts: 1,575
    Joined: Apr 07

    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 9:01pm)

    My Q's:

    How often are we to 3b this pre preante
    Can we ever lead flop, I think when villian(initial raiser) checks behind its almost always a miss
    Should I be checking turn and Bet/Folding River

    Full Tilt Poker Game #28641569359: $24,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (222504651), Table 22 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:54:39 ET - 2011/03/01
    Seat 1: Saint Cross (5,340)
    Seat 2: TheStarver (6,940)
    Seat 3: ERAPOKER (11,361)
    Seat 4: itsalgreen (12,284)
    Seat 5: InvisibleEnigma (4,735)
    Seat 7: JTJ03 (5,599)
    Seat 8: XElliottSmithO (1,530)
    Seat 9: 2AA4you (9,078)
    JTJ03 posts the small blind of 50
    XElliottSmithO posts the big blind of 100
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to JTJ03 [Qs Ac]
    2AA4you raises to 300
    Saint Cross folds
    TheStarver calls 300
    ERAPOKER folds
    itsalgreen folds
    InvisibleEnigma calls 300
    JTJ03 calls 250
    XElliottSmithO folds
    *** FLOP *** [As 6s Kd]
    JTJ03 has 15 seconds left to act
    JTJ03 checks
    2AA4you checks
    TheStarver checks
    InvisibleEnigma checks
    *** TURN *** [As 6s Kd] [4c]
    JTJ03 has 15 seconds left to act
    JTJ03 bets 685
    2AA4you calls 685
    TheStarver folds
    InvisibleEnigma has 15 seconds left to act
    InvisibleEnigma folds
    *** RIVER *** [As 6s Kd 4c] [Jh]
    JTJ03 checks
    2AA4you bets 3,000
    JTJ03 has 15 seconds left to act
    JTJ03 has requested TIME
    IcaIsawIco (Observer): i hope you die you italien mzfuker
    JTJ03
    643 
  2. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
    Joined: Feb 06

    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 9:22pm) in reply to jtj03

    1) I don't see a reason to 3bet this preante very often at all (maybe 10% of the time?). To be effective, you need to 3bet to ~1200+. This commits 25% of your stack and you're stuck folding to a 4-bet or playing a large pot out of position if called. To me, 3-betting here only makes sense occasionally and solely for the purpose of balancing your range.

    2) Not sure about leading out on the flop. What happens if you get raised? If you lead the flop I think you almost have to bet/fold, which does not seem optimal (but perhaps my opinion is partly influenced by how the flop/turn played out).

    3) Leading the turn makes sense. You have top pair + strong kicker with a couple draws out there. After the flop checks around, leading here is most likely an attempt to extract value as well as protect your hand. I honestly don't see the point in checking the turn, unless your goal is to c/r hoping that another player makes an attempt to take it down.

    On the river, I think bet/fold is the best option. It allows you to extract value from weaker holdings (Kx, QQ, etc.) while folding to a likely stronger hand. Bet/call seems spewy as the only hand you beat is a medium pair or AT, both of which seem unlikely to raise the river. Check/fold gives a capable villain too much of an incentive to bluff at the pot. Check/call may be okay if you think it will induce a bluff. But that's a very read-dependent play and if you go that route, you have to be willing to call the possible bluff.
    Edited By: tyson219 Mar 1st, 2011 at 09:23 PM
     969 
  3. kelmann333 kelmann333 is offline

    Posts: 331
    Joined: Mar 10

    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:02pm) in reply to tyson219

    Personally, I don't want to play AQ in SB with so many players. To me, it's fold or raise PF. Raising would invest 20-25% of our stack and we still might get reraised; therefore, I'd fold PF. Nitty- maybe.

    As played, I would bet the flop to take control. Too many players to go. If raised, we can let it go- at least we know where we stand. Check/calling gives us no info.

    Not sure why you checked the river, but a fold is in order.
  4. jtj03 jtj03 is offline

    Malta

    Posts: 1,575
    Joined: Apr 07

    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:03pm) in reply to kelmann333

    thanks for the input tyson i dig alot of your thought process
    643 
    Thread Starter
  5. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 2:50pm) in reply to jtj03

    I think it's a no-brainer 3-bet pre-flop, get it in, call the river, blah blah blah, if you're in the rebuy hour. Let's talk about the hand as if you're not, because that's more interesting.

    Out of position, I'm not re-raising pre-flop very often, if ever. You don't want callers, and betting enough to drive anyone out commits yourself to getting it in way behind when someone 4-bets with AK, QQ+.

    Don't mind how you played it otherwise. I'd prefer the blocking value bet/fold on the river to checking...but checking gives him the chance to bluff, which is OK too. His pot-sized bet on the river sure doesn't feel like he's looking for value with a monster, or even A-J. Is he bluffing with a missed draw, or just trying to steal the pot with K-Q, or whatever, more than 1/3 of the time? I think so, so I'm calling the river. I'm not thrilled with the idea...there's no "high fiving the monitor" here...but I call.
     
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