Post on Cloutier's and Harrington's book raises a question that intrigues me...
It strikes me that the styles of some of the "names" here are 180 degrees opposite of Harrington and Cloutier.
From what I observe Bax and NSX in part are very loose and aggressive early on tourneys, preferring to mount a big stack early or exit.
Leggy oth seems to play more conservative.
Harrington, in a somewhat snobby reference to the aggressive loose style notes that he has never seen the first day WSOP chip leader make the final table....
Can folks list what they perceive the styles to be of the "ranked" names from this site?
Well, certainly H0 is a go big or go home guy.
The times I've watched Bax, he struck me as pretty solid. No silly moves early. He can be beat, but he seldom beats himself.
WTM is just plain scary. Think I've only seen him stub his toe once. If you plan to beat him, also plan to start with the best hand.
Not familiar with any of the other ranked players.
I actually thought one of the neat things about Harrington's book is that he actually sees the benefits of a loose aggressive style, I think the book is actual as helpful for this kind of player as for a tighter player. He even talks about how aggressive play is well suited to tournaments.
I think his point was that its not really all that important to have a huge stack early, I think this is more true though in a deep stack event than it is online.
I read em both and thought they were outstanding. I agree that he acknowledges the style of aggressive players but he also cautions that most beginner and intermediates cannot play aggressively well.
But he does toss out the line about the WSOP chip leader on day one a couple of times if I recall.
His best line and one that kind of helped me overcome trying to outthink myself was about a player who brags that he folded pocket kks just knowing that the other all in player had AA.
He said he smiles and congratulates them on how smart they were and then thinks to himself "idiot".
He repeats the same thought a couple of times. When you have a very powerful hand, play it. Sometimes you lose. That's poker.
Reads are wonderful. Reads are useful.
Reads can save your ***... WHEN you've got marginal cards.
Agree totally. When you've got a good hand, play it strongly and don't tie yourself in knots worrying about what the other guy *might* have. Most of the time... whatever you decide he has... you're wrong anyway.
I have played quite a few tourney's on UB with BAX and BRSavage, and both seem very solid to me. Ho is crazy, amassing giant piles of chips early or getting busted early and moving on to something else.
NSXT2 is a sneaky bastard.
TheBeat is solid/aggressive.
The crazy aggressive people that go nuts early in tournaments amaze me. I can't understand how it works so well, but it seems to. I would love to know what their ROI is in MTT's. I wouldn't be surprised if it were huge, and I also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't that good and they just play a lot of tourneys.
That comment about the WSOP that Harrington makes has been around for many years, I think it's in Cloutier's book as well.
It's in Sklansky's tourney book (which I like), but I wonder how many people will keep saying now that Raymer won last year, I think he was a chip leader very early on right? Although maybe not day one, which is how Sklansky says it, I forget about Harrington.
My game has evolved a bit.
I started out loose, passive, and just downright dumb. I thought that seeing 25% of flops meant that I was tight.
I then moved to tighter, but still a little passive. You can actually go deep in a few tournaments this way. But, I never won a tournament.
Brsavage then showed me what tight and aggressive really meant and I became tighter and more aggressive. A very good way to play online. You'll consistently cash and be a positive player. When the cards are right and the bad beats stay away, you'll win occasionally.
I then moved to tight, aggressive, tournament poker. I would not chase any straight or flush. I only played big cards and tried to win everything with top pair and top kicker. I was very cautious if anyone played back at me after the flop and I would fold lots of hands giving lots of credit. This is actually a pretty successful way to play tournaments. I built my initial ranking using this method. I think this most closely resembles TJ Cloutier's style of staying away from difficult decisions and chip-leaking by chasing when behind.
Right now, I consider myself an aggressive situational player. I am very tight with calling raises but pretty much disregard limpers completely when deciding what to do. There are times when I am in good chip position that I revert to TJ's approach. When I am short stacked, I very much have intuitively developed a system similar to Harrington by trying to take advantage of fold equity. I focus on big profit in the cuttoff, button, SB, and BB dynamics. I focus on big profit from limpers. I focus on big profit from money bubble and final table dynamics. I play lots of cheap hands early on trying to build a stack that can take a bad beat. I try to identify weak players and put them to the test regardless of my hand. My transition to this style started after going to WPT events and playing side by side with big name players. It took lots of practice to figure it out and I had a two month spell where my results went way down. The past two months, I have played the best poker of my life. I'm amazed at how many times I have a huge chip stack now. I'm also amazed at my closing rate. Out of the past 12 final tables, I have won 8, finished 2nd twice, third once, and sixth once. I've had a few more money and FT bubbles, but the extra $ from winning tournaments more than makes up for this stat.
Bax is very solid and aggressive but also has a great knack for the situational aspect of poker. He is also willing to take a moderate risk in order to get your whole stack.
Brsavage I think is tight and aggressive and likes to play for your whole stack. If we were more of a chopper, his results would be a little more consistent. When the bad beat demon stays away, he is unbeatable.
NSXT - too loose for my taste, but obviously his feel carries him through.
Sheets and The Beat - none tighter in my opinion.
One I am still attempting to determine the demarcation line in tourneys where limping is not a sign of weakness.
Most of us limp in NL games when the blinds are low. Sklansky even recommends it.
If you mean to say that all early round limpers are weak, I disagree.
I wish I could improve my final table results. The last few days have been my most successful ever. I have made 6 final tables in the last two days, all in at least $50 dollar entries (or the dise 30 RA) and only played 10 tourneys. Now it helps that 3 of those were on Empire, 3 on dise (Boy talk about Fish.....I've played four of Empire's larger buy in tourneys there and made the final table all four...and believe me I aint thaaaaaat good).....
But I only won one of those tourneys the empire 5000 yesterday.
and btw aaaawnutz I credit u a lot for improving my game....thx
I am in kind of limbo in adjusting my game.
But I am disapointed in my final table performance. I think my final 3 performance and heads up play is very good but I am having trouble getting there...
What do you suggest to improve that FT play...quickly b4 my streak ends (LOL).....
Limping makes sense anytime the blinds are low in relation to your stack. It let's you take some calculated risks while allowing enough others in the pot to make your odds worthwhile. But, you need to be confident you can outplay your opposition after the Flop in order to make it a profitable tactic.
Best way I know to improve FT performance is to play SnG's. A FT is really a whole new tournament. First you have to outlast before you can conquer.
AawwNutz - This is a great post. It would be great to see an article similar to this about either the stages of development & improvment as a tournament player or something about the most profitable tournament situations and how to capitalize on them. Do you have any new articles coming up?
One thing that you have to realize with TJ's book is that he is talking about playing with the best pros on the planet. If you raise 3x BB w/JJ UTG, Mizrachi will re-raise you to 9xBB with his pocket sixes on the button. Playing JJ out of position for 9x BB is not comfortable.
In online poker, lots of players flat call and/or fold those sixes from the button.
Those are certainly good ideas. I've not really been invited to write anything by the site. I did submit the two guest articles and enjoyed writing them. I've got lots of ideas, but just normally contribute in the forums.
I'd second that. I actually started reading his posts from february forward...almost every one of his strategy posts are excellent. I've created a text file called "The Tao of AawwNutz" that has some of his responses grouped together. It's definitely helped me spot some leaks in my game and some "amateur" plays i've been making.
So, when's your first book coming out AawwNutz? :)
Great reading your posts, thanks man.
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