[x]

sunday 15k guarentee, what did i do wrong with this hand?

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11
  1. StaxxArmstronG StaxxArmstronG is offline

    Sulphur, LA
    United States

    Posts: 95
    Joined: Jan 12

    Aug 19th, 2012 (8/19/2012 11:43pm)

    Its after the late reg of the 15k guarentee on merge I have 12k, blinds are at 200/400 with ante, evryone folds around to me I have KQc on the button I raise to 1200 sb folds bb rr to 2,000 I put him on a pp or an A rag type hand I rr to 5,000 he flats, after he flats I put him on a low pp, flop goes 7s Kh 9h, bb thinks till the clock runs then checks at this point pot is over 12k I shhove with 6k left again he thinks forever then calls with 66, turn card 6, river A. I don't understand what made him call the allin, maybe he thought I missed and did a panic shove, maybe because he had 20k, but with a r then a rr this deep I have to have some kinda hand in his mind, should I have bet smaller? What did I do to make him even consider calling?
  2. ImaBustYou ImaBustYou is offline

    Milwaukee, WI
    United States

    Posts: 1,882
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 19th, 2012 (8/19/2012 11:59pm) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

    blinds 200/400

    you, btn 12k KcQc
    villain, bb 20k 66

    -to start off I would like an open raise between 800-1000.
    -as played villain min 3b you oop to 2,000. I think this is terrible on his part.
    -you then 4bet to 5K after putting him on hands that are better than yours. what were you trying to accomplish with your 4bet? did you want him to fold? if he shoved were you calling off?
    -I like the aggression, but maybe not the best spot to 4bet as most good players are going to 5bet shove here. Calling off with KQs to a 5bet shove is usually not the greatest.
    -Your flop shove for value is good, and I am guessing the reason villain called was because he felt pot committed. You just got unlucky there as it's not a profitable call by him.
  3. StaxxArmstronG StaxxArmstronG is offline

    Sulphur, LA
    United States

    Posts: 95
    Joined: Jan 12

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 12:26am) in reply to ImaBustYou

    I rr to put him on a better range of hands maybe get a fold deff calling all in with big suited conectors
    Thread Starter
  4. tripseekerx tripseekerx is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,394
    Joined: Mar 11

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 12:32am) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

    get used to those man..he figures/hopes your on 2 overs, pairs a fair gamble, HU, F-it why not..
    thats the average merge player imo..
  5. EricWRX EricWRX is online now

    New Glasgow
    Canada

    Posts: 539
    Joined: Jun 12

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 12:56am) in reply to tripseekerx

    i'd start by opening less ...your 4b is way too big also. Pretty sure i'm just shoving over his 3b. If i had more i'd flat. 4b fold is awful, 4b/c doesn't make sense to me either.

    Either flat or shove pre imo. I don't see how you can put him on the particular range you gave him either...he's just a bad player and could have anything.

    As played....he's obv not folding 66 here.
     
  6. pokerscrub1 pokerscrub1 is online now

    Darlington, SC
    United States

    Posts: 662
    Joined: Feb 10

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 1:08am) in reply to EricWRX

    Well, after you have 4b pre, I would def never fold on a King high flop. My question is, why not just flat his clickback preflop? I mean if you assinged him a range of Ax and low pp's. why not just call getting like 4.5 to one? I mean our hand plays pretty well against that range, and we give him a chance to spew post flop.
     
  7. StaxxArmstronG StaxxArmstronG is offline

    Sulphur, LA
    United States

    Posts: 95
    Joined: Jan 12

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 1:18am) in reply to pokerscrub1

    U r right I should have flated the rr, I still think he would have tryd to out play me and still would have gotten lucky
    Thread Starter
  8. TheBazza1984 TheBazza1984 is offline

    Redditch
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 14
    Joined: Aug 12

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 12:45pm) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

    I also do not understand the 4 bet if you are putting him on the hands mentioned. The size of your 4 bet is too big, BB with 66 and given your position has every right to think himself ahead. Bad play from the villain post and luckily got rewarded. Pre flop play needs looking at :)
  9. willmccoy willmccoy is offline Self-Proclaimed H00dRich BlacKK Fish

    East Saint Louis, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,569
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 2:50pm) in reply to TheBazza1984

     
    Originally Posted by TheBazza1984 View Post

    I also do not understand the 4 bet if you are putting him on the hands mentioned. The size of your 4 bet is too big, BB with 66 and given your position has every right to think himself ahead. Bad play from the villain post and luckily got rewarded. Pre flop play needs looking at :)

    So what is the proper 4-bet sizing here????
  10. PeaceGotAces PeaceGotAces is offline

    Halifax
    Canada

    Posts: 384
    Joined: Feb 10

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 4:19pm) in reply to willmccoy

    Probably 4b around 3600 if I did...don't do it here though
     
  11. elimherr elimherr is online now

    Denver, CO
    United States

    Posts: 2,275
    Joined: Apr 09

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 4:38pm) in reply to PeaceGotAces

    First i open to 800, (open smaller in general keeps pots smaller and allows more play with short stacks). If your 4 betting i dont like the click back 4 bet I prefer a shove for maximum fold equity here when we are only 30bbs deep. We dont really want to be inducing him to shove hands that we could get him to fold out like week A's or smaller pairs.

    In this spot however since his 3 bet was so small (600 more to call) I like calling here and playing a hand that flops well IP even though we are short it eliminates the variance of a flip or 60/40.
    Edited By: elimherr Aug 20th, 2012 at 04:41 PM
     
  12. Ninemil Ninemil is offline

    Boscombe
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 220
    Joined: Aug 06

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 4:41pm) in reply to willmccoy

     
    Originally Posted by willmccoy View Post

    So what is the proper 4-bet sizing here????

    either 0, or 12,000

    Any 4b other than AI in this situation is bad. Min raise pre, then flat the 3b or 4b AIPF.

    Unless you have a dynamic where you can induce your opponent to shove worse than KQs, you should just be shoving over his 3b or flatting.

    And if you are putting him on a lof of low pp's and Ax, flatting is probably slightly better, as you can take it away post if you don't hit the flop as that range is going to play sh*tty oop and he's going to hate his life (which is why his play is horrendous).

    Why, o why, are you 3xing the button? That's the real question
     
  13. paulgibbo paulgibbo is offline

    Cambridge
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 44
    Joined: Dec 09

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 5:18pm) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

    you could flat his 3b with a hand that plays well i position creating a stack to pot ratio of 2... shove over it is fine... your small 4 looks so strong as if you cant fold any flop well you can't - you have 7 left and there is 12 in the pot - if he shoves flop your overcard odds might be enough.

    his flat is insane with these stacks. your shove is fine.

    so pre flop - fairly standard - fold is fine vs tight 3 betting range.. 4 bet fine too... shove fine too - by 4 betting small you induced a huge huge error - he was effectively set mining getting 2-1 - he made a stupid call 'put you on AQ' and got lucky
     
  14. willmccoy willmccoy is offline Self-Proclaimed H00dRich BlacKK Fish

    East Saint Louis, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,569
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 7:45pm) in reply to elimherr

     
    Originally Posted by elimherr View Post

    First i open to 800, (open smaller in general keeps pots smaller and allows more play with short stacks). If your 4 betting i dont like the click back 4 bet I prefer a shove for maximum fold equity here when we are only 30bbs deep. We dont really want to be inducing him to shove hands that we could get him to fold out like week A's or smaller pairs.

    In this spot however since his 3 bet was so small (600 more to call) I like calling here and playing a hand that flops well IP even though we are short it eliminates the variance of a flip or 60/40.

    Obv i should already know this but need to clarify! We should only induce to make a weaker hand spazz out correct. And Jam or open larger to get better hands to fold most of the time?????
  15. Frank Hough Frank Hough is offline

    Rochester, MN
    United States

    Posts: 47
    Joined: Jul 11

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 12:00am) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

     
    Originally Posted by StaxxArmstronG View Post

    Its after the late reg of the 15k guarentee on merge I have 12k, blinds are at 200/400 with ante, evryone folds around to me I have KQc on the button I raise to 1200 sb folds bb rr to 2,000 I put him on a pp or an A rag type hand I rr to 5,000 he flats, after he flats I put him on a low pp, flop goes 7s Kh 9h, bb thinks till the clock runs then checks at this point pot is over 12k I shhove with 6k left again he thinks forever then calls with 66, turn card 6, river A. I don't understand what made him call the allin, maybe he thought I missed and did a panic shove, maybe because he had 20k, but with a r then a rr this deep I have to have some kinda hand in his mind, should I have bet smaller? What did I do to make him even consider calling?

    My take on this is that you have the wrong mindset on this situation. Without even talking about the wierd lines you both take in this hand, you should just realize that you got most of the money in after you flopped way ahead of him. There is no reason you should be upset about what happened since you were a huge fave on the flop; don't be mad or try to think you should have done something different just cause a 6 hits the turn.
  16. StaxxArmstronG StaxxArmstronG is offline

    Sulphur, LA
    United States

    Posts: 95
    Joined: Jan 12

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 4:08am) in reply to Frank Hough

     
    Originally Posted by Frank Hough View Post

    My take on this is that you have the wrong mindset on this situation. Without even talking about the wierd lines you both take in this hand, you should just realize that you got most of the money in after you flopped way ahead of him. There is no reason you should be upset about what happened since you were a huge fave on the flop; don't be mad or try to think you should have done something different just cause a 6 hits the turn.


    I'm just dumbfounded on how he made this call and what he might have put me on I dnt get upset in poker if u have an emotional attachment you will not go far in this game.
    Thread Starter
  17. saukendar saukendar is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,283
    Joined: Mar 07

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 5:09am) in reply to StaxxArmstronG

     
    Originally Posted by StaxxArmstronG View Post

    I'm just dumbfounded on how he made this call and what he might have put me on I dnt get upset in poker if u have an emotional attachment you will not go far in this game.

    dumbfounded ???

    Button raise/4-bet & pot is over 12k => shove with 6k on a K high flush board --- I guessing he figured opener to shove about 100% in this spot, naked As, flush & str8 draws - 66 looks like plenty of equity for 3:1 call vs. a likely range.

    I agree 4-betting to 12BBs with 15BBs back = bad news. If your going there ship it pre, but I like calling in position & keeping enough back to make a pot+ size bet an option.

    my 2 cents
Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11