http://www.pokerhand.org/?6358368P

Just cant that freakin hand out of my head. hada little history with villain, however, that was on the semi FT and was a completely different situation. pot was 3M after his 3bet and he had 6M left which was only 20bb. thats another mistake i made, thought thats pretty short but 20bb in the sm is rly not bad and cause he only really can call with a monster due to icm i decided to shove there. but i only thought about how to apply max pressure and didnt think about the importance of maintaining my own stack etc. and with his 3bet he kinda commits himself to the other shortys so i doubt hes light here. i just seen the pot of 3M, his stack of 6M and the other shorties and didnt really take into account that the guy actually can wake up with a hand. what do u think guys? i sum it up:

pro shove:
-> apply max pressure, he'll only call with AK and JJ+ i guess.
-> pot is 10bb now and he has 20bb left, if he EVER folds this is a good move i think
-> if i lose the pot i still have 13bb and can make a run

contra shove:
-> table was pretty weak. i was on a really really tough table with 100 left or so but from 18 left to ft everyone played pretty weak and i reached the FT as the cl cause of good bubble play
-> i can collect chips without risking my CL etc
-> there's a risk of going out in 7. obv

i mean, there are hands which i misplayed and can tell that was a mistake, but here, if i won the hand id think that was a good play. in retrospect i think that hand was the biggest mistake i made so far. would like to hear a lot of non-result oriented oppinons here! fwiw, i opened really light and villain knows that, i thought he's capable of 3betting me wideish with a lot of hands thats going to fold to a shove like KQ or AJ, prolly even AQ simply because of the other shorties.

forgot to mention, villain was 3b/folding a ton on the semi ft in similar spots, but again, different situation :(

I just paused it at the 4 bet jam spot and have not seen the results. Thoughts to follow.

yeah icm suicide is prolly the right word. but i mean, if he ever folds i pick up a lot of chips, if he calls with overs we flip and i can tell u that theres like no way i dont win this with that massive stack. only player who i know is good was sitting on my direct right which also was awesome. dont know, i raised a ton of airish hands and got married there, esp cause villain 3b/folded a ton on ft bubble. watching the replay now to see if my impression of his image was right or not. MissOracle 3betted another utg raiser who had AQs, was the exact same spot with the difference that 3bettor had air here (J9s)... i think because of the weak players theres no doubt that it was a mistake, kinda want to know if it's just a borderline mistake or a huge one.

he wont EVER call with 22-77... thats not the point. there was pretty much no flatting at the ft or ft bubble, so if he thinks his ATs, AJo, KQs, and whatever is good he's gonna 3bet with them. if i show more strength tho i think he'll make an easy lay down. i also think he will fold 99 often, TT sometimes, JJ+ never obv. i dont know his lifetime winnings etc, i dont look things like this up usually and concentrate at how certain players play right now. if u guys have time just watch the ft from start to end and tell me what u think. couldnt follow the action now, gonna watch it later.

 

Originally Posted by RedIceRap

yeah icm suicide is prolly the right word. but i mean, if he ever folds i pick up a lot of chips, if he calls with overs we flip and i can tell u that theres like no way i dont win this with that massive stack. only player who i know is good was sitting on my direct right which also was awesome. dont know, i raised a ton of airish hands and got married there, esp cause villain 3b/folded a ton on ft bubble. watching the replay now to see if my impression of his image was right or not. MissOracle 3betted another utg raiser who had AQs, was the exact same spot with the difference that 3bettor had air here (J9s)... i think because of the weak players theres no doubt that it was a mistake, kinda want to know if it's just a borderline mistake or a huge one.

think you answer your own question in this comment,

if there really was only 1 decent player at the table and the villain isnt him then yeah this is ugly

surely if you honestly believe your the best player you dont need to take super marginal (bad) spots to accumulate the cl

on a side note i think you come off more arrogant in every post

hes more likely to just shove those hands u listed. 3b is always a monster, might even be a case for folding ak/qq/jj here

I was watching the FT.. Why did you snap jam it in? You should hardly ever snap-act, especially at such a big FT like the sunday mill in a spot like this where there are a lot of factors to consider before 4-betting a scary 3-bet on your utg open.. and fwiw, I doubt villain is ever 3b/f TT/AQ if he's 3betting he's likely to be getting these hands in unless he's just that bad..you're not getting 99 to fold cause he doesn't 3bet 99.

This is a really simple fold though. ICM is HUGE here and you have to be extremely confident he is light here a lot/have a really solid understanding of his 3-betting range on a utg open, not to mention 9 handed at a big FT with short stacks behind. ICM suicide pretty much sums this up though and like sirswish said, folding AK/JJ/QQ here isn't out of the question.

They chopped 5ways and everybody got at least 100k... Rly stupid, but if u always ask urself what wouldve been that would be sick. If it works out the way u wanted it to work out then u say 'good i did that move there, what wouldve been if i passed on that spot'... Have to review some earlier tourneys and spot the mistakes so they dont happen again. I got sucked out btw when i busted... What wouldve been if i hold? I get 100k as well. Made a mistake, got unlucky, gg for the most part. Running like god helped!

Yeah i def agree. Besides having a few reasons for that play i also was afraid of being bluffed or run over and didnt really think about it that i spew like 100k with that play. Busted way too often in standard spots so i developed that shitty attitude which cost me a lot. Hope the attitude is gone together with that money.

didnt read whol thread but EAAASSSSYYYYYY FOLD plzzzzzzzz..... u say the table is playing weak.. then you raise UTG and he 3bets... how the F do you jamm w/88????? AQ JJ, I fold if the table is as weak and easy as you described

I was railing this liwve and thought it was a huge mistake. I felt I was pretty in tune with dynamics and felt he was never light in that spot. And even on paper, I don't think he is light very often/if ever.

Either way, congrats on the run mate!

 

Originally Posted by rungoodmuch

9 handed at the sunday mill ft, I really dont see someone 3b a utg raise light. The payjumps from 3rd to 9th are large and the 3 bettor has a stack where if he does have a hand like AK/1010-JJ he's most likely just stuffing it pre on you, praying you fold. His 3b screams QQ-AA and I really think QQ could be the worst hand that he's 3 betting you here with. I let the 8's go because I really dont ever see a 3b fold here and the best situation for you he has AK but I would almost eliminate AK from his range because I think he probably just stuffs it pre.

+1^^^
I think this is spot on tbo. Originally thinking it was JJ+, AK and I do think JJ and def AK will just be shipping pre most of the time. On the flip side he is repping what he has by 3b here hoping to induce? Or is 3b better in case he faces a cold 4 bet from a deeper stack and could you possibly fold?

Sucks you were tired Red and I am sure this was the reason as even the best will lose their cognitive abilties being sleep deprived. Congrats on getting there again.

Peace

I was also railing this live, seems like an easy fold to me considering icm and the fact that you have an edge over half the other players.

You can fold here and easily make top 5 since you have the chip lead.

Congrats on making another SM FT!!!

Thank guys for the replies. Agree with pretty much every post. Hopefully that hand helped me in some way for future similar decisions. I didnt really realize that im on this ft and didnt realize how important it is to just survive to get that 6fig.. Just wanted to enforce a fast win and well, didnt work. I tried a lot of new stuff out in that tourney which i normally dont do and i was one of the cl since the beginning of the tourney. Hope i can repeat that soon :) i also felt like i was in god mode which influenced my decision here. Gotta know when to switch back to reality mode.