Not much to say besides I've seen the villian limp call 6s utg couple orbits prior. On the river he has about 50kish back and me 70k back. Pot size is about 130k I believe. Really crappy board runout and not exactly what he calls the river with that I beat


pokerstars Game #51622784719: Tournament #336020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (2000/4000) - 2010/10/24 21:04:10 ET
Table '336020010 781' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: The Lag rat (135100 in chips)
Seat 2: spencerman3 (79594 in chips)
Seat 3: misssafety (65126 in chips)
Seat 4: meckwell (24066 in chips)
Seat 5: sidowiec89 (16782 in chips)
Seat 6: flow_joe_79 (76436 in chips)
Seat 7: BodogAri (193843 in chips)
Seat 8: Toskanata (103534 in chips)
Seat 9: bebecas1973 (112912 in chips)
The Lag rat: posts the ante 400
spencerman3: posts the ante 400
misssafety: posts the ante 400
meckwell: posts the ante 400
sidowiec89: posts the ante 400
flow_joe_79: posts the ante 400
BodogAri: posts the ante 400
Toskanata: posts the ante 400
bebecas1973: posts the ante 400
flow_joe_79: posts small blind 2000
BodogAri: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Lag rat [Kc As]
Toskanata: folds
bebecas1973: calls 4000
The Lag rat: raises 8700 to 12700
spencerman3: folds
misssafety: folds
meckwell: folds
sidowiec89: folds
flow_joe_79: folds
BodogAri: folds
bebecas1973: calls 8700
*** FLOP *** [Jh Qh Ts]
bebecas1973: checks
The Lag rat: bets 18880
bebecas1973: calls 18880
*** TURN *** [Jh Qh Ts] [Td]
bebecas1973: checks
The Lag rat: bets 32220
bebecas1973: calls 32220
*** RIVER *** [Jh Qh Ts Td] [Ah]
bebecas1973: checks
The Lag rat:

I would check back, I don't see him calling with anything less then a straight. And the board is paired and 3 flushed. The only good that might come from a bet is to get him to fold a straight, but to do that you need to risk a lot of chips...

 

Originally Posted by Burying_Luck

all in? Looks like he's hero calling you all the way down. Lousy river card for action purposes, but I think he raises with a flush draw either on the flop or turn. Think he would be betting the river if he filled up at some point. Just have to figure if he's going to pay you off with any hands you beat, but given your read on him being pretty passive I get it in. But hey I suck so I would look into other people's responses ;)

he could have made a flush on the river and be hoping for another barrel by hero...

I prolly bet 50% pot for value. Obv a call makes things easy, so either option works.

If you're worried about getting raised, then this is an easy call.

bet 25k (or whatever is exactly half his remaining stack) and hope he has aq. altho it ran out so ugly, i def don't like checking the river. betting half his remaining stack or jamming both seem fine to me, leaning more towards betting 25k since i also think, like the aforementioned post, that he folds 2 pair hands to a shove

 

Originally Posted by Steve Murkle

And if he check shoves?

pot is way too big to fold after betting the river

 

Originally Posted by Steve Murkle

And if he check shoves?

obviously call, i apologize i thought that went without saying, seeing as how enormous the pot would be in relation to the 25k more to call from a chk/shove (and knowing u still chop alot with him)...i was just saying why i'd bet 25k instead of shoving...you are committing all of his chips regardless...i just think u get more value from his losing hands by betting half of his remaining chips...amateurs don't like to hero call for their entire tournament life deep in the million too often i imagine

 

Originally Posted by P0KERDUUDE

I don't think it's a terrible check because the board is paired, flushed, and has a 1 card straight there. You might be able to get value from a hand like AQ or AJ, but that's really it, besides maybe QJ or Q9 if he's that bad. I still like dean's advice to make a small bet, but I'm definitely checking here a lot too. There are not many hands that will be calling you that you aren't beat or chopping with.

i completely agree that the board ran out so badly, and u really aren't getting value from much at all(besides AQ, and a 9T) but i also just don't think he checks a flush/boat on that river too often, and will show up with AQ a high % of the time, way more than a random T at least. so i would just try and gear a value bet towards whatever AQ will call, and then sometimes u chop with him,a nd very seldom (i imagine) are u going to be beat after he chks that river.

I have a hard time believing that he's going to call with hands worse than a straight. It's a heavily coordinated board and TLR has bet it twice. I check, but admittedly I feel like my river play needs work b/c I'm missing value spots.

[SIZE=3]Wow so close....i think in the moment i probably would have checked back just because it doesn't seem like he's ever calling the river with worse anyway....at the same time the pot is so big on the river that it seems very unlikely he would check a flush here and if he flatted the turn with a full house i'm assuming he would lead the river......still i really only think you're getting called on the river by the same hand or a hand that beats u on the river if u stuff.....he has to give u at least credit for a king if u continue after river...and if he's really bad enough to check call the whole way with AQ or AJ, it seems like he would be just folding to the river stuff......i like dean's thoughts on betting super small on river seeing as how, like he said, some players want to get to show down so bad they will call anything but their tournament life to see if their hand is good......[/SIZE]

I tanked for a while on the river not sure what I was gonna get called by that I beat but at the same time I figure Id have the best hand a high percentage of the time.

Results: I jammed and he had JTcc for a turned boat. Thanks for the replies

I was b/c at that point with that much of the effective stack in the pot. He has a combo draw or something that I beat enough times. Wouldn't have loved it but was deff bet/calling. If I didn't want to call a shove I would've checked back the turn for pot control

 

Originally Posted by The Lab Rat

I was b/c at that point with that much of the effective stack in the pot. He has a combo draw or something that I beat enough times. Wouldn't have loved it but was deff bet/calling. If I didn't want to call a shove I would've checked back the turn for pot control

^^^^ Never folding to a check ship on the turn due to pot odds and semi bluffs he could be holding.....def checking back otherwise........

Oh and on river as played i still think checking back is the best solution....one thing i wondered that i don't think u mentioned is timing tells on the river.....this is for sure a spot that's close enough to go with a timing read...like if he had been snap checking every street and continued in this fashion on the river i would definately be more likely to continue betting on the river....where if he had thought 2-5 seconds longer before checking i would assume he had more of a decision at this point and would in turn probably go the more safe/standard route of checking back....... any thoughts on timing tells here???