Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

Sunday Million Hand...How would you play it?

Reply to Thread
  1. mckiley mckiley is offline

    Northport, NY
    United States

    Posts: 7
    Joined: Feb 09

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:04pm)

    pokerstars Game #25247954298: Tournament #140492030, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2009/02/22 20:29:28 ET
    Table '140492030 988' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: boobySMILES (24529 in chips)
    Seat 2: reillyontour (20980 in chips)
    Seat 3: Hilda36 (141549 in chips)
    Seat 4: aacevedo (37356 in chips)
    Seat 5: ASUjake (79338 in chips)
    Seat 6: DaCumBacK1D (72924 in chips)
    Seat 7: Tagir (195968 in chips)
    Seat 8: Silhouette83 (46805 in chips)
    Seat 9: CBion3 (56445 in chips)
    boobySMILES: posts the ante 400
    reillyontour: posts the ante 400
    Hilda36: posts the ante 400
    aacevedo: posts the ante 400
    ASUjake: posts the ante 400
    DaCumBacK1D: posts the ante 400
    Tagir: posts the ante 400
    Silhouette83: posts the ante 400
    CBion3: posts the ante 400
    Tagir: posts small blind 2000
    Silhouette83: posts big blind 4000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DaCumBacK1D [3d 3h]
    CBion3: folds
    boobySMILES: folds
    reillyontour: folds
    Hilda36: folds
    aacevedo: folds
    ASUjake: raises 6000 to 10000
    DaCumBacK1D: ???

    This hand gave me a bit of grief preflop...theres 9600 in the pot before ASUjake makes his raise; and in the cutoff, he could easily be raising light. Not to mention, the bubble just burst, so players are likely to be looser and more aggressive...

    i could lay it down, not get myself into trouble, but that seems like an overlycautious play, and im going for the win now. folding doesnt appear to be a reasonable action just yet...

    i could flat it and hope to either flop my set or use position, but that too is a losing play most often; basically giving away 10k...

    i could, however, 3-bet it, boost it to about 28k; however this is giving him slight PO's and any larger of a bet is seemingly committing me. if its flatted, yet again im looking at hopefully flopping a set, or buhh bye 28k...

    which brings me to my next problem, if i 3-bet, what if he pushes? Am i willing to commit myself to a seemingly coinflip scenario, or is a 3-bet folding to the shove, in which case i just blew 3/7ths of my stack...

    now if i put him on high cards, (hoping im not running into pockets...other than 2s lol) he could be flatting or shipping my 3-bet...in which case i have to decide whether i want to throw 3/7ths my stack away or commit with 3s.

    my last choice is even riskier, but with a higher chance of stealing... if i ship my stack, hes now definately not getting PO's, and it puts him to an all important decision. if my read on him is correct, and hes playing with non paired high cards, its possible he could lay it down, and if not...im running into a coinflip that is somewhat weighed in my favor.

    all choices are somewhat complicated...what do you think???
  2. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,763
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:08pm) in reply to mckiley

    Flat and 3/bet fold are pretty horrendous imo.

    Personally, I fold here w less than 20 bbs and look for a better spot since you have a little time. Not really sure about a shove, since you're basically praying for a flip if he does call. BTW, how do people always put people on high cards preflop by just a standard open raise?
     
  3. MDG0RD0N MDG0RD0N is offline

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Dec 08

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:09pm) in reply to mckiley

    <title>Enter text here.</title>In this spot you only have 18 BB's. Since the bubble just burst you have a lot of work to do before you hit a new pay level. He could be tossing in this raise pretty wide from the CO, but I think flatting is the worst play. There are still two players to act behind you, and you won't be calling a 3-bet from either of them. If you do see a flop, you'll be set-mining and probably mucking to his c-bet. However, a flat here could completely mind-fuck him into checking the flop to you LOL, but it depends what he has and I still don't like it.

    A 3-bet to 24-28k or so gives him between 3:1 and 8:3 to play you OOP, but I don't think he'll be flatting you here with anything (AK/AQ doesn't want to play OOP, other hands are likely mucking, and pairs are either shipping or folding). At that point you'd be getting 3:1 to call a shove, which I think you could only hope to be racing AK (maybe AQ?), and are likely far behind a good portion of the time. With that said I think 3-bet/calling and 3-bet/folding (leaving yourself with just about 10 BB's) are both pretty spewy.

    A 3-bet shove in this spot definitely puts the pressure on him, but it does give up your positional advantage (I think if the hand is played it won't go to a flop without the chips in the middle though). The players behind you will have to have monster hands to consider playing, and your villain probably won't stack off light.

    With all that said I think mucking may just be your best option.

    If we can go another level here, maybe think of what he puts us on if we 3-bet or 3-bet ship...anyone care to go into deeper thought, I'm mind-fucked here as it is.
    <title>Enter text here.</title>
  4. fratzner fratzner is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

    Posts: 406
    Joined: Dec 05

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:13pm) in reply to I Spew Chips

    ok, so you are on the button, the cutoff makes a standard raise.. this is a shitty spot, but calling is horrendous, you are just asking for a shove from one of the blinds. I would 3-bet and call shove, then avoid high fiving the monitor when he has 66.
     
  5. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

    New York City, NY
    United States

    Posts: 8,036
    Joined: Aug 06

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:13pm) in reply to MDG0RD0N

    Please shove
     
  6. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

    Manhattan, KS
    United States

    Posts: 7,332
    Joined: Apr 07

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:14pm) in reply to I Spew Chips

    I either fold here and don't gamble, or jam cuz I don't believe 20bb opens in LP...but it basically goes back to the play at the table. I can see folding or jamming. Folding you take less risk and can def find a better spot. Jamming is what a lot of ppl I'm sure would do also.
  7. H n F R Mangos H n F R Mangos is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
    United States

    Posts: 252
    Joined: Jan 06

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:15pm) in reply to MDG0RD0N

    you are above average stack i think. Without any real reads on this player you should fold and wait
  8. 56off56 56off56 is offline

    Richmond Hill
    Canada

    Posts: 455
    Joined: Sep 08

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:17pm) in reply to mckiley

    i suck, but i'd say fold or shove only.
  9. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,763
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 2:31pm) in reply to 56off56

    I'm folding just because barring ASU is a complete moron, I doubt he's raising light. Raise/folding 20 bbs by ASU is awful, so I'd say again, when you shove you're just praying you're flipping. Find better spot IMO.
     
  10. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 4:40pm) in reply to I Spew Chips

    against a random retard that doens't know how to play, i'm shoving. against someone that is good/competent, i'm folding

    flatting and 3bet/folding are beyond terrible and should not even be considered
    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  11. marc1313 marc1313 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 4,303
    Joined: Feb 08

    Feb 23rd, 2009 (2/23/2009 4:54pm) in reply to Gags30

    depends on reads obv. as well as your table image but if you're new to the table or w/o reads then:

    SHOVE=FOLD (really close imo and either is fine with me) >>>>>>>>>>>> ; 3bet to 28K>>>>>>>>>>>> ;>>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>>>> ;>>>FLAT
  12. choboy choboy is offline

    Posts: 4
    Joined: Feb 09

    Feb 24th, 2009 (2/24/2009 6:55am) in reply to mckiley

    mckiley

    it's an easy fold, you wont to be pushing the action , not calling it, a pair of 3s is not a very strong hand to call with. plus he had more chips them you, if you lose this hand you would be crippled. what i have learned is on the bubble or the final table , when your dealing with the chip leader your best to have solid hand.
    i learned this lesson the hard way, i got busted dealing with the chip leader with QJo he had KJo and i had stright draw, and missed,i lose 150,000 in chips, he had 350,000,i got 180.00 dollars ,but i missed a chance to win 3000.00 i was sick for 1 week.i hope this helped. choboy
  13. CJDeman CJDeman is offline

    Sydney
    Australia

    Posts: 820
    Joined: Jul 07

    Feb 24th, 2009 (2/24/2009 7:04am) in reply to choboy

    Agree with Marc. Unless I have seen him fold to 3-bets, I am folding this.
     
  14. dyeti1 dyeti1 is offline

    Posts: 99
    Joined: Nov 08

    Feb 24th, 2009 (2/24/2009 7:43am) in reply to mckiley

    It's a fold for me! You just don't need to be getting involved with such a mediocre hand. you still have an M (number of orbits of the table in relation to your chip stack) of around 8, while this is not huge it is not yet very desperate, it should give you enough time to sit on your hands and pick a better spot. You should bare in mind that ASU should also realise that he has a similarly procarious M, and with such a big stack, who can bully, in the small blind will probably not be on a steal. The flat call is probably just a waste of chips and the raise is asking for all kinds of trouble, so just sit tight.

    Dyeti
    755 1
  15. rochustler rochustler is offline

    Rochester, NY
    United States

    Posts: 489
    Joined: Apr 06

    Feb 24th, 2009 (2/24/2009 8:08am) in reply to mckiley

    i'd probably jam but im a spewtard
     
  16. AMARTIN1181 AMARTIN1181 is offline

    New Haven, CT
    United States

    Posts: 10,690
    Joined: Nov 08

    Feb 24th, 2009 (2/24/2009 10:10am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    against a random retard that doens't know how to play, i'm shoving. against someone that is good/competent, i'm folding

    flatting and 3bet/folding are beyond terrible and should not even be considered

    I agree with you Gags that It's a fold against most competent players, but why would you be more likely to shove on a "retard" then a reg. I know a lot of ppl think raise folding a 20 bb stack is bad, blah blah blah, but if a player who you consider competent never raise folds a 20 bb stack, how does he get action on his big hands? Wouldn't he be rather exploitable if he is calling with his entire opening range here? Not only that, are you narrowing a competent players range to only pairs that beat 33?
Reply to Thread