Seriouosly, tight on the tag moniker. I make Harrington look like Gus Hansen. I do ok, I'm playing on the same bankroll I deposited 5 yrs ago, the stats db doesn't always reflect that, but I do this more as a hobby than anything. Not really bank rolled for anything above $1-2 mtt's. I don't really like cash games.

I don't play alot, and don't seem to catch many cards, not the likes of hands I see on here. I get all the off suited 5 gappers preflop. When I do get the type hands I see the better players raising with and seemingly making things happen it seems there is a raise and a reraise in front of me, always out of position or force to play for my whole stack.

I do want to do it well though, and I just can't make myself shove wierd hands with 20bbs. I make the money enough to keep my habit going, lol. Nothing great, but not horrible for a hobby player. When I do make the money I'm usually short or average but getting eaten up by the blinds and back to the 5 gappers preflop.

I had one real good tourney, not my highest recent score but I was playing really well I thought, about 4x average and lost sight of the fact alot of $1 tourneys some players don't have access to the fold button, lost a hand to bottom pair that just would not fold on a 4 flush board, then took a river beat, and lost KK against J10 when, of course he flopped a boat. Went from having a good chance to go real deep, to just itm. My best recent score was push/fold all night, after the first break I floated between 5-10bb's the rest of the night. Then there are nights like tonight, every hand I got someone was one better, all night, lol.

It seems to me my biggest problem is giving them too much credit for hands, especially preflop, but at the same time having absolutely nothing to fight back with. When I do catch a few cards I can make a run, I have a few final tables in the past. Took about a year off and trying to play a bit more now.

I don't try to get fancy, but do want to get better. Any advice beyond play more and keep reading the forums? I have most of the highly thought of books. Who are some of the better TAG style players to rail?

Talking about shoving weird hands with 20 BBs, here's kinda a weird shove I just made with about 16. Totally card dead, but I had been paying attention and knew the guy who open shoved was pretty loose opening. Considering both that and him doing it from the cutoff, I was pretty sure AT was ahead so I put it in there. Some people might think this is fairly standard given the read, but it's something of a leap of faith for me. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you think you have an edge you need to overcome your fear and press it.

pokerstars Game #20312110930: Tournament #106781025, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2008/09/10 23:37:22 ET
Table '106781025 146' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Papa Guede (40056 in chips)
Seat 2: dj53 (8185 in chips)
Seat 3: Gas & Oil (2220 in chips)
Seat 4: baflinn (37497 in chips)
Seat 5: vandy_031 (70832 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: chriwaddle (17077 in chips)
Seat 7: Julytuna (32040 in chips)
Seat 8: dougiel (12099 in chips)
Seat 9: threebanger (19389 in chips)
Papa Guede: posts the ante 125
dj53: posts the ante 125
Gas & Oil: posts the ante 125
baflinn: posts the ante 125
vandy_031: posts the ante 125
chriwaddle: posts the ante 125
Julytuna: posts the ante 125
dougiel: posts the ante 125
threebanger: posts the ante 125
Papa Guede: posts small blind 600
dj53: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to threebanger [Tc Ah]
Gas & Oil: folds
baflinn: folds
vandy_031: folds
chriwaddle: folds
Julytuna: folds
dougiel: raises 10774 to 11974 and is all-in
threebanger: raises 7290 to 19264 and is all-in
Papa Guede: folds
dj53: folds
Uncalled bet (7290) returned to threebanger
*** FLOP *** [4h 8s Th]
*** TURN *** [4h 8s Th] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [4h 8s Th 5c] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dougiel: shows [Kh Jh] (high card Ace)
threebanger: shows [Tc Ah] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
threebanger collected 26873 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 26873 | Rake 0
Board [4h 8s Th 5c Ad]
Seat 1: Papa Guede (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: dj53 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Gas & Oil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: baflinn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: vandy_031 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: chriwaddle folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Julytuna folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: dougiel showed [Kh Jh] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 9: threebanger (button) showed [Tc Ah] and won (26873) with two pair, Aces and Tens

No this is an MTT with 2000 runners. Down to last 180 at that point.

You wouldn't push AT there when you know this guy's range is probably top 40%, maybe wider?

I am very far from being able to offer the most sound advice, but for me, I saw improvement when I tightened up in the earlier stages and playing very aggressive in position with anything from pocket pairs, suited connectors, etc. In these micro tourneys, especially on stars, half the field will be gone within the first hour. You'll still have plenty of time to get a chip stack later on once a lot of the donkeys have gotten out of the way. Don't worry about your chip count until the blinds and antes really are starting to hurt. I've been to the felt many times and have battled back.

Avoid these hands in early position no matter how pretty they look: A2-AJ, K2-KQ, Q2-QJ. Don't even limp them. Limp pocket pairs up to TT from EP. Careful with JJ.

Pay attention to who the donkeys are and make them pay severly for their draws and weak kickers. Don't even try to bluff them. Keep good notes on other players.

Oh yeah, play more!

Good luck.

moriAArty

 

Originally Posted by DeerJohn

I don't play alot, and don't seem to catch many cards, not the likes of hands I see on here. I get all the off suited 5 gappers preflop. When I do get the type hands I see the better players raising with and seemingly making things happen it seems there is a raise and a reraise in front of me, always out of position or force to play for my whole stack.

This is your problem right here IMO. You get dealt the same amount of great hands and crappy hands as any of the amazing MTT players out there. With this mentality you will never be a winner.

Also it sounds more like you're playing weak tight than TAG. TAG's know when to pick their spots and clash heads at the right point in a tourney. So just be patient and start playing your hands stronger. Abuse the button a bit more, try and isolate for 2/3 way pots and make sure your c-betting the correct flop textures.

Ok, let me see if I can help you out with this hand. I play purely cash games so only play a handful of MTTs a month but will try my best.

Pre flop:
Good raise, narrows the field and gets you 2 way with JJ.

Flop:
You're in position here and need to be c-betting much larger, prob. around 375 to get rid of the flush draw

Turn:
Not a bad check behind, pot control is important here in case he does have a K and if he is a mad LAG then his range is wide open. Also the 3rd club is out.

River:
Yeah the call is fine here, I'm not raising back, simply due to the "way behind or way ahead factor." There is a small range of hands calling which you beat (small PP, Ace high) and a large range of LAG hands which have you dominated (Kx, 4x)

So as it played out you're line was fine, but don't be scared to bet hard on the flop, try and keep it 3/4 pot size+ And with a tricky turn card like that, always good to execute pot control and check behind. Here is where you're position is vital.

Any more hand histories you would like to discuss, feel free to PM me!

Pokertracker proved to me that what I thought was TAG, was not really what I played at all! Pokertracker will reach out and smack you upside the head with a good dose of reality.

 

Originally Posted by threebanger

No this is an MTT with 2000 runners. Down to last 180 at that point.

You wouldn't push AT there when you know this guy's range is probably top 40%, maybe wider?

Not that you had a bad hand, because it wasn't, but it was an easy shove for you. Compare chips stacks. You were still in the game next hand no matter what the result was.

I didn't read much more than the title and skimmed a few posts buuuuuut since I'm pretty tag and feel like I am getting better...

make sure you get paid off with big hands, if it doesn't go to showdown, it not always the worst to reveal them. It helps take control of the table. When you're in control, you can pretty much raise pre w/ position and Cbet your way to a more comfortable stack.

i would say use your image and position to win small/med pots to keep your stack healthy. I think it was IWEARGOGGLES that said in his podcast that he doesn't do anything too crazy but he opens alot of pots deep.

notes: win small pots in position so you don't have to push/fold.

gl

LOL. One for the bad beat forum.

So, in hindsight shoud I have opened shoved?

Hand #56878924-62 at sniper820pm-017 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Started at 11/Sep/08 21:36:06

cclrji is at seat 0 with 2895.
uncle j is at seat 1 with 3470.
FROGIE JUMPIN is at seat 2 with 2655.
apeman1 is at seat 3 with 1955.
sharo8888 is at seat 4 with 1830.
vossman51 is at seat 5 with 7310.
sliddy is at seat 6 with 1625.
js13_tps is at seat 7 with 1235.
izzysjoy is at seat 8 with 7370.
tomblack12 is at seat 9 with 2355.
The button is at seat 4.

vossman51 posts the small blind of 50.
sliddy posts the big blind of 100.

cclrji: -- --
uncle j: -- --
FROGIE JUMPIN: -- --
apeman1: -- --
sharo8888: -- --
vossman51: -- --
sliddy: -- --
js13_tps: Kh Ah
izzysjoy: -- --
tomblack12: -- --

Pre-flop:

js13_tps raises to 300. izzysjoy folds. tomblack12
folds. cclrji folds. uncle j folds. FROGIE JUMPIN
folds. apeman1 folds. sharo8888 folds. vossman51
re-raises to 1000. sliddy folds. js13_tps goes
all-in for 1235. vossman51 calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

vossman51 shows Ad 8c.
js13_tps shows Kh Ah.

Flop (board: Qd 6d 5d):

(no action in this round)

Turn (board: Qd 6d 5d 3d):

(no action in this round)

River (board: Qd 6d 5d 3d 3h):

(no action in this round)

Showdown:

vossman51 has Ad Qd 6d 5d 3d: flush, ace high.
js13_tps has Kh Ah Qd 3d 3h: a pair of threes.

I really like lordxixor's advice and you should def go with it. It is surprising how totally changing your style even just as an experiment can give you a new perspective on your game. As a random example after reading this last night I thought I would give it a go in a sng. I fired up bodog cos I only have a small roll on there and I'm never gonna be able to get it off anyway. 4.40 10 man sng and I made the decision that I was only going to fold or shove the whole game and with some pretty average hands. Usually I play the usual super tight until 100/200 thing. First hand A9s got called by 77, rivered a 9 doubled up. I shoved again a few times over the next 10 hands or so with any 2 broadway and picked up a couple of 3x raises and all the blinds.
At this point I was getting called out as a major donk by one particular player who was gonna "snap my carrot" later on.......
Admittedly I did get lucky but nobody was prepared to call without the nuts and I got away with murder. Four handed I shoved AJo from the cutoff and my tormentor said gg donk and called with AA. Obviously I flopped a set of jacks lol gg fool.
I had 2/3 of the chips in play 3 handed but kept up with the fold or shove. I didn't end up winning as heads up I shoved KT into QQ to lose chip lead then shoved 66 into 77 to take second.
The interesting part of this is that the table really had little idea how to combat my over the top aggression. Once a couple of guys called and lost nobody fancied it any more.
I am not suggesting that this style is the future only that trying a new angle once in a while can be beneficial to your regular game.
Followed this up with similar in a $6 sng but only lasted 2 hands.He limps, I shove, he folds, I shove he calls my KK with A2s and I hold so no real learning points there.......

Screaming,

I like how you played the game. I especially like how you didn't stop the push/fold mentality. Most players are not equipped to handle players who push every hand (let alone ones that are willing to fold some hands). I think this is a lesson for anyone, anything you can do to make your opponents uncomfortable is a good thing.