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Was there a chop?

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  1. darthsikle darthsikle is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 1:03pm)

    Does anyone know?
  2. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:12pm) in reply to darthsikle

    i highly doubt it
     12
  3. Moosebabies Moosebabies is offline it's all about timing

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:13pm) in reply to mattg1983

    I'm sure someone knows.
  4. sketchy1 sketchy1 is online now Dangerzone

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:42pm) in reply to Moosebabies

    it's highly unlikely seeing that you have to sign for your taxes for the amount you are advertised to have won. so if you sign for $12m, you PAY on the $12m. you can't say "oh i know you saw me with all that $12,000,000 in cash, the gold bracelet, all that, but i seriously only pocketed $8.8m, we had a deal at the end!" the IRS doesn't give a fuck. it would be extremely unprofitable to do so. you'd pay probably $5m on taxes for the $12m, and end up with all of 4th place prize money.
     1

    sketchy1 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  5. Fitz420 Fitz420 is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:44pm) in reply to sketchy1

    That cant be true...if so then who in their right mind would chop? and I am sure there have been chops before...
  6. MattieBoy131 MattieBoy131 is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:45pm) in reply to Fitz420

    im pretty sure all televised events dont allow offical chops.
  7. steve steve is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:48pm) in reply to Fitz420

    the tax info is 100% true. if there are a group of people who decide to chop, those who give away money (chipleader, maybe 2nd place, depending on how many are in the chop) should ask for a greater percentage to make up for the fact that they will be taxed on the full listed prize amount.
  8. coll28 coll28 is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:49pm) in reply to MattieBoy131

    because of the chip advantage im sure no chop was even considered. I have read where most of the past series have been chopped until a few years ago.
  9. ajfulp ajfulp is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:51pm) in reply to MattieBoy131

    sketchy,
    the casino would file tax papers stating the actual amount he won in the event of a chop, what is reported by the media as how much he won doesnt mean shit, all that matters is how much the check the Rio wrote him is for
  10. sketchy1 sketchy1 is online now Dangerzone

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:52pm) in reply to steve

    again this is because it's a televised event as someone else stated.

    the WPT has a rule in their contract you sign when you play that forbids deals. it was brought about after paul phillips pubically admitted in SI that he chopped with mel judah at the bike a few years ago.

    the WSOP has no such rule, but does NOT allow chop talk at the table. during a satellite it's perfectly okay to talk about it, but the clock runs the whole time. during any WSOP sanctioned tournament you cannot discuss deals at the table in any way shape or form. you are more than welcome to do so on break when you are away from the table.
     1
  11. ajfulp ajfulp is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:52pm) in reply to steve

    so you are saying that Annie Duke paid taxes on all 2 million she won in the '04 TOC tourney, when every player involved have admitted they chopped it up like 5 ways??
  12. nthn2fancy nthn2fancy is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:54pm) in reply to steve

    uh, no they would be taxed on how much they actually get.
  13. sketchy1 sketchy1 is online now Dangerzone

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 4:59pm) in reply to ajfulp

    ok, that's what i'm telling you... the rio will write the check for the amount advertised.

    any deal is done in private between parties outside of the eyes and hands of the rio.
     1
  14. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 5:20pm) in reply to ajfulp

    I'm pretty sure even if the Casino wouldn't sanction/supervise a chop, you could just write up a legal document stating the chop and having both people sign it and it would work.
    43 
  15. Hoooo Hoooo is offline Disabled account

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 5:25pm) in reply to nthn2fancy

    You are missing the point. What he is saying is the following:

    1. Chops are not allowed.
    2. Since chops are not allowed, whoever gets 1st place is getting a check for 12 million.
    3. That person is paying the taxes on ALL 12 million.

    If they do a deal they have to do it privately, and the deal would have to give the person who got 1st place more money then normally, to make up for the taxes they will be paying.
  16. sketchy1 sketchy1 is online now Dangerzone

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 5:29pm) in reply to ajfulp

    there's a possibility that they did chop, did it in private, and allocated some of the money from each player to proportionally pay the taxes and pay annie in private. or something. i don't know.

    i don't think i've EVER heard anyone admit they chopped that. if you can prove me wrong i'd love to read it, don't think i'm saying you're lying i'm just saying i don't think anyone has publically acknowledged what i believe to be true anyway.
     1
  17. Get Th@t Get Th@t is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 5:34pm) in reply to sketchy1

    Scotty and the grinder chopped in tunica. 100% certain of that, so i dont know exactly how they did it but the money was split 50/50 between the two of them.
  18. alden167 alden167 is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 6:19pm) in reply to Hoooo

    YES, there are chops allowed at the WSOP. No, they don't show it on t.v. If I remember correctly, Moneymaker asked Sammy if he wanted to chop while they were on break in the bathroom and Sammy turned him down.

    NO, they wouldn't have to pay the taxes on all the 12 mill if they chopped. When you receive your money from the RIO they give you a tax form. There are lines that you can write in who gets what in the case of a chop.

    IMO I don't think they chopped. If they did then, Wasicka woulda have called with the 78 spades. That and Gold had a huge chip lead and was running them over.

    Thanks,

    alden167
  19. alden167 alden167 is offline

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    Aug 11th, 2006 (8/11/2006 6:21pm) in reply to alden167

    Check : http://www.pocketfives.com/DD6E4B33-...6A8AF8C.aspx#5

    Under the Tax Q&A - Tournament section here on P5's, it clearly shows what and how you would claim a chop taxwise.
  20. Dumb Walrus Dumb Walrus is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 1:59am) in reply to alden167

    Yes, there was a chop at the end.
  21. LVpokerdealer LVpokerdealer is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 2:03am) in reply to alden167

    I emailed support for them.
  22. coll28 coll28 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 9:32am) in reply to darthsikle

    Steve D friend got half of his winnings last year. I am sure that there is some form out there to use for taxes. For example a group of people(10) buy 1 Lottery ticket then they would all be taxed on their portion of the winnings - - - 10 win 10,000,000 then each pay x amount of 1,000,000.

    I sure hope to find out one day. Hell I'm not gready.

    YFIS

    CHIP
  23. Gabovitch Gabovitch is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 1:44pm) in reply to darthsikle

    Even if you could do it, Gold had such a big chip lead most of the way that I can't see why he would have ever considered it. Obviously when he was heads up with a more than 7-1 chip advantage, there couldn't have been a chop. Gold only would have agreed to a deal that gave him most of the first place money and why would Wasicka have agreed to that?
  24. TheMasterJ33 TheMasterJ33 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 2:10pm) in reply to Gabovitch

    i lived with paul during the world series and watched the entire final table. there was no chop.
    1
  25. TampaBayJams TampaBayJams is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 2:18pm) in reply to Gabovitch

    First off, you only pay taxes on your winnings after a chop, not what you would have won for 1st if you didn't chop. It makes no difference to the IRS, lets say 1st pays 1 million and 2nd pays 600,000 however the plays agree to chop 900K and 700K, the IRS is still gonna get paid the same amount of money as long as both players report their winnings. Documentation would be important but not hard to come up with if the deal was legitmate.

    I was in a debate in another forum when Ricky Zilem won WPT Championship prelim event and what would happen if his winning were confiscated since he was underage. While he certainly could of gotten in a lot of trouble, he would not have had to pay taxes on winnings that were taken away from him. I don't know exactly how the Bellagio would have redistributed the winnings but they would have somehow and those players would of paid taxes accordingly.

    2nd, many of us watched the final table unedited and no way they made an agreement chop as there was not a significant break in between 3rd busting and heads up. I'm not saying we saw both players the whole time but to agree to a chop, there would have been a longer delay.

    3rd, no way Jamie was chopping with his lead. If anything, he would of had to double up Wasicka at least once before that would have even been considered providing Harrah's would have allowed them to talk which still seems to be up in the air.
  26. santiago44 santiago44 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 3:02pm) in reply to TampaBayJams

    I've chopped plenty of times in LA. YOU ONLY PAY TAXES ON WHAT U GET. the casino will publish more in poker pages and so on thats just to get more players intrested in playing that event.
  27. pokerjamers pokerjamers is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 3:59pm) in reply to darthsikle

    When could they have possibly chopped? Heads up? I doubt it Jamie had a 2234304234 to 1 chip lead, it just would have given Paul a mill more, but i doubt Jamie would go for it unless Paul doubled off him once...If they had chopped previously, it would have to be 3 handed because I can't imagine Cunningham chopping, but if they chopped 3-handed and if they left any money on the table to play for it would just be for 1st place. If this is the case then why would Paul fold his open ended straight flush draw? I highly doubt there was any chop at all
    771 
  28. jhill3535 jhill3535 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 4:14pm) in reply to Hoooo

    SDouble chopped the limit holdem event that he finished 3rd? in. He said it on one of "The Circuit" shows he was on during the series.

    So he would know how it works.
     
  29. Lvdonkey Lvdonkey is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 8:00pm) in reply to jhill3535

    SDouble is a spaztic attention seeker though.
  30. Cmac Cmac is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2006 (8/12/2006 9:22pm) in reply to steve

    your taxed on your net income...all you'd have to do is file the amount transfered for the chop as and expense and the difference will be used to calculate Net income
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