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Thoughts? Havent been this soul-crushed in a longgg time

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  1. d1lemma d1lemma is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 2:38am) in reply to SNGWizard

     
    Originally Posted by SNGWizard View Post

    I honestly don't think this guy knows what's going on.

    i think you may be right, also what language is that second sentence in?

    also lol at 12 180s as a "variance buster"

    i think this is a reasonably bad shove given what i see at the table (stacks/players), and definitely a bad raise/call (shoving atc are you kidding me?)
  2. Zota15 Zota15 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 2:58am) in reply to d1lemma

    He knows you have a tendency to overplay suited 4's
  3. Drewace34 Drewace34 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 3:00am) in reply to Skitz0Frenik

     
    Originally Posted by Skitz0Frenik View Post

    My thoughts: he's not good...

    pretty much this....
     
  4. iTrump iTrump is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 3:00am) in reply to Skitz0Frenik

     
    Originally Posted by Skitz0Frenik View Post

    My thoughts: he's not good...

    bad read
     
  5. Drewace34 Drewace34 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 3:17am) in reply to iTrump

    lol doubt raise callin with K4 ss for value is optimal...i udnerstnad u might think fou is reshippin 20x wide here but his wide is still ahead of ATC and abs ahead of K4ss...u made a spew call and got lucky he showed up with the bot of his range....

    This is terrible beyond belief when u have a table full of free $ and ur puttin ur entire equity on a hero call...sometimes makin the "right play" isnt makin the right play...find better spots plz this is horrid bad with 20x+ regardless of how u slice it...
     
  6. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 10:31am) in reply to FouTight

    First off, I find it funny Fou says he sees this guy deep quite a bit, yet everyone assumes he's no good on one call (a call where he called with a dominating hand too).

    First off, easily could be a misclick. I'll assume it's not here, but that can always explain anything (and easily can happen).

    To me, I'm guessing this is a read. You recognize him as a decent player, he easily can see you as the same. He knows you can push light, and is going to call here, make you show something down. He also could have notes on you saying you'll push light in these spots.
  7. sharkzilla1 sharkzilla1 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 10:48am) in reply to Drewace34

     
    Originally Posted by Drewace34 View Post

    pretty much this....

    +1
  8. the_dean22 the_dean22 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 10:51am) in reply to sharkzilla1

     good call.
     111

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  9. jtphila jtphila is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 11:38am) in reply to FouTight

    I don't think there's a ton of metagame in the 12/180's so unless the two of you see each other a lot in MTTs I think this was a misclick.

    However, this is a high variance play for you in a "variance buster" tournament, particularly given the fact that you probably have a huge advantage over everyone else at the table except this guy.
  10. Balla-B13 Balla-B13 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 12:02pm) in reply to FouTight

    SNGWizard is terrible and both your shove / his call are not good, although his call is much worse than your shove.
     
  11. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 12:05pm) in reply to crwjtb

     
    Originally Posted by crwjtb View Post

    was this play pre or post your getting raped in the million with the 2 outr?? btw his call must be due reads thats why I ask about above, you dont seem to tilt.

    It was pre getting raped in million, and regardless, this was not a tilt shove. Like you said, I dont tilt, I just thought it was a good spot to shove thinking that he folds all but his good hands. Obv i was wrong about that.
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  12. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 12:33pm) in reply to lordxixor101

     
    Originally Posted by lordxixor101 View Post

    First off, I find it funny Fou says he sees this guy deep quite a bit, yet everyone assumes he's no good on one call (a call where he called with a dominating hand too).

    I never thought he was bad, and right after the call I was left wondering << did he really crush my soul as hard as he did there? >> In the moment, my initial read was that he didnt misclick and that he raised with the intention of calling my shove. I literally stood up from my computer chair and was like wtf i got rofl-pwnd.
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  13. mapunk mapunk is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 1:02pm) in reply to Drewace34

     
    Originally Posted by Skitz0Frenik View Post

    My thoughts: he's not good...

    ^^ this. The dude has a 14% ROI in the $11 180's after 4k games. I wouldn't take one hand he plays agqainst you and read into it too much.
     
  14. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 1:04pm) in reply to mapunk

     
    Originally Posted by mapunk View Post

    ^^ this. The dude has a 14% ROI in the $11 180's after 4k games. I wouldn't take one hand he plays agqainst you and read into it too much.

    i think thats decent... can u pull up my stats?

    edit : thx

    <span><table id="t1" border="1" bordercolor="black"><thead><tr><th width="140">Username</th><th>Games Played</th><th width="45">Av. Profit</th><th width="45">Av. Stake</th><th width="45">Av. ROI</th><th width="50">Total Profit</th><th>Form</th><th>Ability /100</th><th>Network</th><th width="50">Filter</th></tr></thead><tbody id="tablerows"><tr id="FouTight#pokerstars& E180-180 S10-15 Spd=T SNG Only"><td id="FouTight#pokerstars& E180-180 S10-15 Spd=T SNG Only0" align="center">FouTight </td><td align="center">1,228</td><td title="The Av. Profit is the Average Profit Per Game after rake has been subtracted." align="right">$4.36 </td><td title="The Av. Stake is the average tournament buy-in amount." align="right">$11 </td><td title="The Av. ROI is the Average of each game's Return On Investment. It is the average of each (Payout-(Stake+Rake))/(Stake+Rake). This is not the same as total ROI which is (Total Payouts-(Total Rake+Total Stakes))/(Total Stakes+Total Rake)." align="center">36%</td><td title="The Total Profit is the net profit for this player (and includes rake)." align="right">$5,353 </td><td title="Super Hot=6 straight payouts. Hot=3 straight payouts. Tilt=4 straight losses. Super Tilt=8 straight losses." align="center">-</td><td title="The ability rating is a number up to 100 that shows a players ability based on combining all the statistical measures we have for that player." align="center">N/A</td><td align="center">PokerStars</td><td align="center">E180-180 S10-15 Spd=T SNG Only</td><td>x</td></tr></tbody></table></span>
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  15. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 1:18pm) in reply to d1lemma

     
    Originally Posted by d1lemma View Post


    also lol at 12 180s as a "variance buster"

    Compared to mtts in the 20-215$ range with fields from 1000-8000 players, a 12$ 180man is def a variance buster.
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  16. nbfb42 nbfb42 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 1:37pm) in reply to FouTight

    timing tell imo
     
  17. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 10:35pm) in reply to FouTight

    So you show here that you will shove 5 high. .Then you wonder why someone calls you down with K high? This reminds me of when Annette said what are you doing when that guy called her shove with either 55 or AJ in the European Open I think it was and she said what are you doing or something along the like.
  18. T Money T Money is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 10:40pm) in reply to AFink93

    Balla13 said it best and he isn't even a sng reg. The shove is bad the call is bad.
    494 
  19. ch1pwrecked ch1pwrecked is offline

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    Oct 12th, 2009 (10/12/2009 11:52pm) in reply to FouTight

    Both of you are hitting top 3 nearly every time if you protect your stack a little.

    Sticking your neck out like that to try and pick off a small raise, your overshove is crazy.

    Don't get me started on the call. If it wasnt a misclick...
  20. in4games in4games is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 12:02am) in reply to ch1pwrecked

    you both are bad at the pokers. /thread
     
  21. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 12:04am) in reply to in4games

     
    Originally Posted by in4games View Post

    you both are better then me at the pokers. /thread

    FYP
     
  22. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 12:20am) in reply to rivverkiller

    Don't see how K4s can ever be a call here...seems beyond bad. Foutight's not shoving atc here, that'd be beyond spewy, probably only hands that either have K4 beat, or have really good equity against it (sooted connectors and fun stuff like that). I mean even if Foutight is shoving 50% you're still a dog.
     
  23. Gthezgeniusa Gthezgeniusa is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 1:43am) in reply to FouTight

    IMO this is not a bad call, in certain situations and this is one of them. If you all have history im sure he knows your a competent player. This is quite a huge re shove, making it a somewhat obv steal and your range IS HUGE. k 4 of hearts a huge percent of the time is the best hand because you can be shipping air here ALOT. Pretty standard to raise ANY 2 when folded to you on the button and also pretty standard to re shove 2nd in chips in SB or BB. And if he thinks he is ahead and wins the pot he has OVER a 5-1 chiplead on every other player. How this hand was played out I think that the call with the K 4 of hearts is not very bad IMO.
  24. RevG RevG is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 2:30am) in reply to FouTight

    horrible ridiculous donkey overshove

    horrible ridiculous donkey call

    </end thread> imo
  25. BigRed0000 BigRed0000 is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 3:14am) in reply to Gthezgeniusa

     
    Originally Posted by Gthezgeniusa View Post

    IMO this is not a bad call, in certain situations and this is one of them. If you all have history im sure he knows your a competent player. This is quite a huge re shove, making it a somewhat obv steal and your range IS HUGE. k 4 of hearts a huge percent of the time is the best hand because you can be shipping air here ALOT. Pretty standard to raise ANY 2 when folded to you on the button and also pretty standard to re shove 2nd in chips in SB or BB. And if he thinks he is ahead and wins the pot he has OVER a 5-1 chiplead on every other player. How this hand was played out I think that the call with the K 4 of hearts is not very bad IMO.

    google ICM. The reshove is bad, the call is infinitely worse.
    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  26. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 5:53am) in reply to FouTight

    cEV-wise, you need him to fold 70-75% of the time to make this a good shove.
    $EV-wise, that number goes up to something ridiculous like 85-88% of the time.

    There's no way he's folding 85-88% of his opening range.

    From SNGWizard's standpoint, this is a horrid call even if you are shoving with only bottom 50%. (any two minus the top 50% of all hands - K4s vs bottom 50% is 63% to win). He needs to win this hand at least 70% of the time to break even.

    Basically a terrible play all around by two other excellent players.

    Both plays (unless they were misclicks) were almost genius, but crossed the line between genius and insanity.
  27. the_dean22 the_dean22 is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 9:30am) in reply to Jennifear

    just shocking how infinitely worse the K4 call is than the 45 shove, and how they are getting lumped together by everyone here as equally poor...
     111
  28. GINS FINEST GINS FINEST is offline

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 10:26am) in reply to FouTight

    k4 call is very bad

    45ss shove is fine/good depending on game flow

    sngwizard r/c range shud b ultra tight w/ those stacks

    fou normally plays these variance busters very good

    edit: after reading jennifears math stuff prob bad shove thought he only need to fold like 65-70% not 269%
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  29. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 11:54am) in reply to Jennifear

     
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

    cEV-wise, you need him to fold 70-75% of the time to make this a good shove.
    $EV-wise, that number goes up to something ridiculous like 85-88% of the time.

    There's no way he's folding 85-88% of his opening range.

    From SNGWizard's standpoint, this is a horrid call even if you are shoving with only bottom 50%. (any two minus the top 50% of all hands - K4s vs bottom 50% is 63% to win). He needs to win this hand at least 70% of the time to break even.

    Basically a terrible play all around by two other excellent players.

    Both plays (unless they were misclicks) were almost genius, but crossed the line between genius and insanity.

    How many BBs do I need to make this a good shove?

    I hesitated before shoving... and I think what pushed me over the edge was also some meta-game thinking... i dont want him to be opening from the button vs my sb/bb all the time so i figured if i shove it might slow him down a little.
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  30. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Oct 13th, 2009 (10/13/2009 11:55am) in reply to AFink93

     
    Originally Posted by AFink93 View Post

    So you show here that you will shove 5 high. .Then you wonder why someone calls you down with K high? This reminds me of when Annette said what are you doing when that guy called her shove with either 55 or AJ in the European Open I think it was and she said what are you doing or something along the like.

    You are right. To everyone reading this: im never ever ever shoving light in a 12-180 ever again. If you call me light you will be crushed. I learned from this :)
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