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is it time to move up?

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  1. dangood1 dangood1 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

    Posts: 1,867
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 1:49am)

    I play $6 sngs and trying to decied if i should move up. Im a tight ass and always afraid of the dredded down swing. I see that my ROI is in the positive but not sure what a good ROI actually is. Ive also seen people talk about the proper sample size, but not sure what the proper sample size is. Can you guys give me some insight?
    thanks everyone

    <TABLE class=sortTable id=t1 borderColor=black border=1><THEAD> <TR class=sortTable><TH class=sortTableasc width=125>Username</TH><TH class=sortTable>Games Played</TH><TH class=sortTable width=45>Av. Profit</TH><TH class=sortTable width=45>Av. Stake</TH><TH class=sortTable width=45>Av. ROI</TH><TH class=sortTable width=50>Total Profit</TH><TH class=sortTable>Form</TH><TH class=sortTable>Network</TH><TH class=sortTable width=50>Filter</TH></TR></THEAD> <TBODY id=tablerows><TR class=sortTable id=dangood1#fulltilt&null><TD class=sortTable align=middle>dangood1 </TD><TD class=sortTable align=middle>2,335</TD><TD class=sortTable title="The Av. Profit is the Average Profit Per Game after rake has been subtracted." align=right>$0 </TD><TD class=sortTable title="The Av. Stake is the average tournament buy-in amount." align=right>$6 </TD><TD class=sortTable title="The Av. ROI is the Average of each game's Return On Investment. It is the average of each (Payout-(Stake+Rake))/(Stake+Rake). This is not the same as total ROI which is (Total Payouts-(Total Rake+Total Stakes))/(Total Stakes+Total Rake)." align=middle>3%</TD><TD class=sortTable title="The Total Profit is the net profit for this player (and includes rake)." align=right>$850 </TD><TD class=sortTable title="Super Hot=6 straight payouts. Hot=3 straight payouts. Tilt=4 straight losses. Super Tilt=8 straight losses." align=middle>-</TD><TD class=sortTable align=middle>FullTilt</TD><TD class=sortTable>x</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <H1>

    </H1>
  2. Kajun Kajun is offline

    United States

    Posts: 5,485
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 1:53am) in reply to dangood1

    I'd say no.... I think i have a 20% roi in these.. plus moving up isn't just about roi it's about bankroll and if you're skilled enough to profit at the next level... Looking at your 3% roi.. i'd say work on your game...

    rebelsofpoker.com is full of sng grinders... and great info... or talk to jenifear about coaching...

    Kajun $endz
  3. jawsthegreat135 jawsthegreat135 is offline

    Posts: 130
    Joined: May 08

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 2:46am) in reply to dangood1

    I hate to rain on your parade but an ROI of 3% at the 6$ sng level is not that good. It basically means you are a slightly slightly above average player like 53/100 percentile. I mean i have a 30% ROI at this level so yea. Improve your game and when you hit an upswing of like 15-20% ROI over 200-300 games then move up.
  4. thefuture021 thefuture021 is offline

    Dallas, TX
    United States

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 2:47am) in reply to dangood1

    stay put imo
  5. dangood1 dangood1 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

    Posts: 1,867
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 3:06am) in reply to thefuture021

    i appreciate the suggestions and comments..like i said i had know idea if it was a bad move or not...
    ive built my roll from 50 to 1k so wasnt sure when it was time
    Thread Starter
  6. threebanger threebanger is offline

    United States

    Posts: 5,094
    Joined: Sep 07

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 3:13am) in reply to dangood1

    OK this is hardly a brag, but I think I've played about that many ($5 avg) with a 15% roi, and I've come to loathe playing them. How can you play this many breaking even and not want to break something?

    I say switch to MTTs if you have the time. The experience you've gained playing all these SNGs will really help you, and if you play as tight as you describe, you'll go deep and then the SNG experience of being at a "final table" so to speak will help you there.

    If not, don't move up until you can crush the $6 games (over 10% roi I would say), and I wouldn't move down either because the $3 games are about the same skill level. If you're rolled for 6s play them.
  7. PLAYER BETS PLAYER BETS is offline

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 3:21am) in reply to threebanger

    with a 1k roll im def moving up from $5 to $10....regardless of your roi....you have like 100 buyins f0r$ 10 not much to think about..if you lose like 10 buyins just move back down. gotta play with better players to improve and $5 donks wont do much. gl
     
  8. dangood1 dangood1 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

    Posts: 1,867
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 12:43pm) in reply to PLAYER BETS

    hey thanks
    thats what i was kinda thinkin...i couldnt imagine the play being that much tougher was just wanting some opinions.
    Thread Starter
  9. Micdiddy Micdiddy is offline

    Santa Barbara, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,688
    Joined: Dec 05

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 12:48pm) in reply to dangood1

    The play is not much tougher at all at $10. I think u can give it a shot with that bankroll, but ditto what everyone is saying that 3% ROI is not too good.
  10. threebanger threebanger is offline

    United States

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 12:59pm) in reply to Micdiddy

    That said, his 3% roi and being in the black probably puts him well ahead of 80% of all other SNG players.
  11. Zagga Zagga is offline

    United Kingdom

    Posts: 45
    Joined: Jun 08

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 1:18pm) in reply to threebanger

    Yep and playing tight works at $6 sngs.I'd guess you need to be betting bigger on all streets (especially pf) and be using your tight image to be looking for more steals when the blinds rise.GL.
  12. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 1:35pm) in reply to dangood1

    dangood-

    The problem with moving up at this point is that your ROI will diminish.

    As things are:

    $6.50 x 3% = $0.195 per game

    You would have to earn a 2% ROI playing the $11s to do the same, and there is enough of a difference between the two levels that, most likely, if you are indeed a 3% player at the $6.50s, you would be a slightly losing player at the $11s.

    Chances are that you are better than 3% at this time (of course you have likely become better over your last 2000 games).

    About sample sizes:

    SNG Confidence Levels <<this should help

    I took the liberty of reviewing your sharkscope stats more thoroughly. You have an inordinate number of third place finishes, but no spike in the 4th-6th area.

    This tells me:

    - You likely aren't shoving enough from EP/button/SB with 6-10 BBs.
    - You aren't shoving enough on the bubble or using your leverage often enough.

    What's good is that you seem to understand that early, you should remain fairly tight and stay out of danger.

    Work on those two things.

    My best suggestion for you right now:

    1. Review all situations in your last 4-5 wins where you had 10 BBs or less in here:

    > Nash ICM Push/Fold Calculator <

    My guess is that you'll find out that you aren't shoving enough.

    2. Learn all the push/fold aspects of the endgame.

    3. Play another 500 SNGs

    4. If your ROI in those SNGs is greater than 8%, make the move up to the $11s on the weekends only, when the games are weakest. If your ROI in those SNGs is 12% or greater, move up for good.

    Hope that helps!
  13. dangood1 dangood1 is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 2:03pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Awsome!
    this is exactly the type of info i was lookin for, thank you so much
    Thread Starter
  14. Fife19 Fife19 is offline

    Halifax
    Canada

    Posts: 10,711
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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 3:00pm) in reply to dangood1

    Drop down imo
  15. creekhouse creekhouse is offline

    Live Oak, CA
    United States

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 3:59pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Jennifear Nails It!!
     
  16. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

    United States

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    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 4:00pm) in reply to creekhouse

    I bet the $11 donk n go's aren't much harder than the $6 DNGs.
  17. gymrat56 gymrat56 is offline

    Western Springs, IL
    United States

    Posts: 576
    Joined: Oct 06

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 6:41pm) in reply to dangood1

    Depends if you have the money and just want to play higher. As far as trying to beat the next level your stats show ur not quite ready to do that yet but are in a good spot to ask Jennifear for coaching or sign up for a trainig site if you have the cash to spare.
  18. ericwright ericwright is offline

    Posts: 73
    Joined: Jan 08

    Jul 12th, 2008 (7/12/2008 8:58pm) in reply to dangood1

    ur making 20 pennys per game.. if ur playin 25 continuously and ok with making min wage keep doing what u doing and get better at it. but if ur not at least doing that then ur just a rec player and the money doesn't matter and you should just be playing play money or having fun. take that 1k bust open a 535 sng and keep doing that and when u get low grind up another 535 at the 6s and agian... enjoy urself gambollll
  19. Prophet Prophet is offline

    Oakland, CA
    United States

    Posts: 318
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jul 13th, 2008 (7/13/2008 12:33am) in reply to ericwright

    is there a way to check your stats based strictly on a certain buyin? or buyin range?

    jw
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