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Top pair top kicker... shoving or passive?

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  1. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

    Posts: 989
    Joined: Dec 06

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 5:01pm)

    No info on player as I'm new to the table.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #23052854673: Table 39 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:51:52 ET - 2010/08/13
    Seat 1: agggronom90 (2,735)
    Seat 2: ipunkedyourmum (1,120)
    Seat 3: MrOrange8 (3,205)
    Seat 4: fishjessicafish (1,880)
    Seat 5: holtyyyr (7,665)
    Seat 6: GhostDog28 (1,910)
    Seat 7: logman777 (2,805)
    Seat 8: 8ntmuch (8,760)
    Seat 9: iknowftr (3,665)
    agggronom90 posts the small blind of 30
    ipunkedyourmum posts the big blind of 60
    The button is in seat #9
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to 8ntmuch [Ks Ac]
    MrOrange8 folds
    fishjessicafish folds
    holtyyyr raises to 180
    GhostDog28 folds
    logman777 folds
    8ntmuch calls 180
    iknowftr folds
    agggronom90 folds
    ipunkedyourmum calls 120
    *** FLOP *** [3d Kh 9c]
    ipunkedyourmum checks
    holtyyyr bets 360
    8ntmuch raises to 1,020
    ipunkedyourmum folds
    holtyyyr has 15 seconds left to act
    holtyyyr raises to 2,280
    8ntmuch calls 1,260
    *** TURN *** [3d Kh 9c] [6s]
    holtyyyr has 15 seconds left to act
    holtyyyr bets 2,940
    8ntmuch: ??? are we shoving or folding at this point? Or should we have shoved or folded the flop?
  2. JasonM163 JasonM163 is offline

    TX
    United States

    Posts: 243
    Joined: Mar 07

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 6:14pm) in reply to 8ntmuch

    Idk maybe he flips a set of nines? Looks like he's pretty strong here I think It'd be hard to find a fold though.

    What was the outcome of the hand
  3. poisoneye1986 poisoneye1986 is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
    United States

    Posts: 4,852
    Joined: Oct 07

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 6:19pm) in reply to JasonM163

    probably woulda just folded the flop vs his awkward sizing. probably has a set or AA
  4. XmoroX XmoroX is offline

    Valencia
    Spain

    Posts: 52
    Joined: Jan 10

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 6:31pm) in reply to poisoneye1986

    I would have play it diferently, by reraising pre, it will give me more information about the range of hands the guy is entering in the pot with out of position against my big stack. But since u decided to just call preflop and hit top pair top kicker with AK, against a "randomplayer", its good enough for me to put all my chips in most of the time. Obviously the guy can wake up with a set or aces, then its kind of a cooler. There is no draws in this flop, and his reraise on the flop look quite strong, so the decision is on the flop, or u shove or u give him credit for a big hand and fold. Since the blinds still 30/60 and if u do fold on the flop, u will have over 7K stack, i would fold on the flop. The guy on the turn has pretty much commited himself so i dont think he is folding to ur shove.
     
  5. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 9:43pm) in reply to XmoroX

    obv u could raise pre here,

    as played preflop i rly dont like raising this flop.
     
  6. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

    Manhattan, KS
    United States

    Posts: 7,332
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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 9:54pm) in reply to okse54

    Ur at best a split pot...why are you raising the flop like u have the nuts?
  7. Spissos Spissos is offline

    Novara
    Italy

    Posts: 163
    Joined: Jul 09

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 9:56pm) in reply to bef99hwk

    why do you raise on this dry flop? as played sigh-fold, or he's crazy or in the best scenario he has AK
  8. Flopnuts1 Flopnuts1 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 10:06pm) in reply to Spissos

    Is he EVER betting like that on the flop with worse? I'd say you're up against AK at best (KQ if he's a complete maniac).
  9. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 10:16pm) in reply to bef99hwk

     
    Originally Posted by bef99hwk View Post

    Ur at best a split pot...why are you raising the flop like u have the nuts?

    umm... don't know... lol That's why I post to learn.

    I guess I was thinking that if I'm flatting pre and hit the flop and he bet out then I would raise as my hand is kind of under repp'd. Bad thinking? After I called his reraise on the flop I had a feeling I should have just folded but oh well.
    Thread Starter
  10. JasonM163 JasonM163 is offline

    TX
    United States

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    Joined: Mar 07

    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 10:18pm) in reply to 8ntmuch

    thats why we are all here though, just learning the game
  11. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 11:01pm) in reply to 8ntmuch

     
    Originally Posted by 8ntmuch View Post

    umm... don't know... lol That's why I post to learn.

    I guess I was thinking that if I'm flatting pre and hit the flop and he bet out then I would raise as my hand is kind of under repp'd. Bad thinking? After I called his reraise on the flop I had a feeling I should have just folded but oh well.

    ur hand might have been under repped preflop but the flop is just to dry to raise here with AK. once u raise this flop its almost impossible for him to put u on anything worse than AK other than a pure bluff. theres also lke nothing for him to come along with that we beat. once u raise this flop ur hand loses its under reppidness and allows him to play pretty perfectly vs ur hand

    the raise basicly completely polarizes ur range and unless u have some history with him hes almost always going to give u credit for the goods. i guess if u have crazy history with him this might work out fine as a merge but obv we cant rly help much if the spot is based on something like that
     
  12. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 11:07pm) in reply to okse54

    exploitable... gotcha... thanks guys!
    Thread Starter
  13. doc793 doc793 is offline

    Clio, MI
    United States

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 11:47pm) in reply to 8ntmuch

    Looking at the stack size it looks like a rebuy tourney. You need to tell us this if it is. It will change the answer drastically sometimes.
     
  14. pokerhaus pokerhaus is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 125
    Joined: Apr 10

    Aug 14th, 2010 (8/14/2010 12:53am) in reply to doc793

    Looking at the stack size it looks like a rebuy tourney. You need to tell us this if it is. It will change the answer drastically sometimes.

    yes this and the buyin$ of the tournament as well i would help.
    this might be very different if its a low or micro touney
    it also brings me to a question could it possibly be +ev to always call any shove in micro stakes tournament with a hand like this knowing that many people will shove with many worse hands?
    Edited By: pokerhaus Aug 14th, 2010 at 12:55 AM
  15. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

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    Joined: Dec 06

    Aug 14th, 2010 (8/14/2010 8:51am) in reply to pokerhaus

    It's not a rebuy... and its either a $3 KO or $6 KO... don't remember which.
    Thread Starter
  16. nanonoko nanonoko is offline PokerStars Team Online

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    Joined: Aug 10

    Aug 14th, 2010 (8/14/2010 1:20pm) in reply to 8ntmuch

    If you're considering folding the turn then you probably should strongly consider just folding on the flop when you get repop. There aren't many cards that are going to change the fate of the action in your favor that you could hope for on the turn so I think you're commitment decision should more be based during the flop.
     
  17. Jwilkinson Jwilkinson is offline

    MP
    United States

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    Joined: Jun 10

    Aug 14th, 2010 (8/14/2010 3:44pm) in reply to nanonoko

    its funny every strat post i read here starts with, no info on the player, just got to the table

    cmon guys this is getting old, just lie at least and say u were hitting the bong , watching sportscenter and J'ing OFF.

    as for the hand, yaaa flat ak ur good guy. jam the shit outta that flop, i love these pros saying guy wont stack off with anything less than ak (split pot) u realize this is a micro and guy is stacking off with a9+ and any king obv. gl op u got a lot to learn , hope this thread helps
    Edited By: Jwilkinson Aug 14th, 2010 at 03:45 PM
    Reason: bad spelling
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