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Tough O8 hand

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  1. gboro780 gboro780 is offline

    Posts: 3,570
    Joined: Apr 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 3:09am)

    Do you make this laydown? When the action got back to me on the river my gut told me I was up against both nuts. I went into the tank and considered folding but wound up making the call and shipping off like 1/3 my stack. Oh and that flop bet was a misclick when the screen popped up as I was trying to check at another table

    pokerstars Game #2855032029: Tournament #13822724, Omaha Hi/Lo Limit - Level VI (200/400) - 2005/10/21 - 02:49:08 (ET)
    Table '13822724 18' Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: dooon (3563 in chips)
    Seat 4: Unseen Hand (2212 in chips)
    Seat 5: G.T.O. (2115 in chips)
    Seat 6: gboro780 (5888 in chips)
    Seat 7: mmmjmmm (3410 in chips)
    Seat 8: mish20 (3190 in chips)
    Seat 9: thatsmysky (3606 in chips)
    G.T.O.: posts small blind 100
    gboro780: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gboro780 [Js Qc 2d 4c]
    mmmjmmm: folds
    mish20: calls 200
    thatsmysky: folds
    dooon: calls 200
    Unseen Hand: calls 200
    G.T.O.: folds
    gboro780: checks
    *** FLOP *** [5c 9c 8d]
    gboro780: bets 200
    mish20: calls 200
    dooon: calls 200
    Unseen Hand: calls 200
    *** TURN *** [5c 9c 8d] [7d]
    gboro780: checks
    mish20: checks
    NutSandwich is connected
    dooon: checks
    Unseen Hand: checks
    *** RIVER *** [5c 9c 8d 7d] [Ac]
    gboro780: bets 400
    mish20: raises 400 to 800
    dooon: raises 400 to 1200
    Unseen Hand: folds
    gboro780: calls 800
    mish20: raises 400 to 1600
    Betting is capped
    dooon: calls 400
    gboro780: calls 400
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    mish20: shows [4s Kd Kc 3c] (HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 7,5,4,3,A)
    dooon: shows [6s 2h 3s Kh] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 7,5,3,2,A)
    gboro780: shows [Js Qc 2d 4c] (HI: a flush, Ace high - lower cards; LO: 7,5,4,2,A)
    mish20 collected 3250 from pot
    dooon collected 3250 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 6500 | Rake 0
    Board [5c 9c 8d 7d Ac]
    Seat 1: dooon showed [6s 2h 3s Kh] and won (3250) with HI: high card Ace; LO: 7,5,3,2,A
    Seat 4: Unseen Hand (button) folded on the River
    Seat 5: G.T.O. (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: gboro780 (big blind) showed [Js Qc 2d 4c] and lost with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 7,5,4,2,A
    Seat 7: mmmjmmm folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: mish20 showed [4s Kd Kc 3c] and won (3250) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 7,5,4,3,A
    Seat 9: thatsmysky folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    647 121
  2. gboro780 gboro780 is offline

    Posts: 3,570
    Joined: Apr 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 3:39am) in reply to gboro780

    Well I have another one. I have always played Omaha for fun on the side and never gotten serious about improving my game. Trying to rack up some TLBs and playing again for the first time in months. Definitely shaking off the rust... I feel myself making mistakes and don't like it lol.

    I know AA means shit in O8 but TC (rob boyd) had been playing aggressive preflop and considering my shitty position in the small blind, I thought reraising pre would a) isolate by getting the utg limper out... which didn't work and b) put me back in the drivers seat and possibly allow me to take the pot down on the flop if TC missed. As it turns out I would have taken half the pot but I'm obvoiusly fine with making the lay down. I don't know. I see way too much NLHE type thinking in my play and that's probably a bad thing in limit hi/lo. If you just smooth call the preflop action, what do you do after that flop? Check/fold? If so, what non ace flop are you really looking for with that kind of hand.

    I'm getting to the point where I find myself making fewer and fewer mistakes playing holdem. I'm obvoiusly still making a bunch but its nice to feel like you are playing well. However, I feel like I am getting ragdolled and bitched around in Omaha way too ofen and would appreciate any input. Thanks

    pokerstars Game #2855108561: Tournament #13822724, Omaha Hi/Lo Limit - Level VIII (400/800) - 2005/10/21 - 03:10:32 (ET)
    Table '13822724 18' Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: dooon (6263 in chips)
    Seat 2: Rollo Tomasi (5950 in chips)
    Seat 3: NutSandwich (5121 in chips)
    Seat 4: caddo68 (201 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 5: G.T.O. (1665 in chips)
    Seat 6: gboro780 (6480 in chips)
    Seat 8: mish20 (3840 in chips)
    Seat 9: TC_Clueless (7317 in chips)
    G.T.O.: posts small blind 200
    gboro780: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gboro780 [Ac 9s As Ks]
    mish20: calls 400
    TC_Clueless: raises 400 to 800
    dooon: folds
    Rollo Tomasi: folds
    NutSandwich: folds
    caddo68: folds
    G.T.O.: folds
    gboro780: raises 400 to 1200
    mish20: calls 800
    TC_Clueless: calls 400
    *** FLOP *** [8h 5c 7d]
    gboro780: bets 400
    mish20: calls 400
    TC_Clueless: raises 400 to 800
    gboro780: folds
    mish20: calls 400
    *** TURN *** [8h 5c 7d] [6h]
    mish20: checks
    TC_Clueless: bets 800
    mish20: calls 800
    *** RIVER *** [8h 5c 7d 6h] [8s]
    mish20: checks
    TC_Clueless: bets 800
    mish20: calls 800
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    TC_Clueless: shows [2h 5s Ad 6c] (HI: two pair, Eights and Sixes; LO: 7,6,5,2,A)
    mish20: shows [3h 7h Ah Th] (HI: two pair, Eights and Sevens; LO: 7,6,5,3,A)
    mish20 collected 4500 from pot
    TC_Clueless collected 4500 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 9000 | Rake 0
    Board [8h 5c 7d 6h 8s]
    Seat 1: dooon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Rollo Tomasi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: NutSandwich folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: caddo68 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: G.T.O. (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: gboro780 (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 8: mish20 showed [3h 7h Ah Th] and won (4500) with HI: two pair, Eights and Sevens; LO: 7,6,5,3,A
    Seat 9: TC_Clueless showed [2h 5s Ad 6c] and won (4500) with HI: two pair, Eights and Sixes; LO: 7,6,5,2,A
    647 121
    Thread Starter
  3. Philly Bones Philly Bones is offline

    Jacksonville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 570
    Joined: Oct 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 8:17am) in reply to gboro780

    I won't even pretend like I'm a good O8 player or anything like that, though it is one of my favorite poker games. I always try to play hands that will scoop the pot more often then not. It's a lot easy to get at least a share of the low hand than to win the high hand. I prefer to play hands that have 4 low cards, or minimum of 3 with the highest being a 6 at the very worst. Double suited is always better and connectors (it seems to me) play better in omaha than in any other poker game. Keeping in mind (if this number is right) that 40% of the time there will not be a qualifying low hand, I will play hands like AAKJ or something like that if it's cheap to see the flop. Most people play hands to hit the low and when you hit on these 40% you usually scoop the whole pot instead of splitting. I've only been playing this game for two weeks now, and my outlook on the game may be completely incorrect. But this is how I see it, and keeping these thoughts in mind has made me more money than I've lost, FWIW.
  4. shighley3205 shighley3205 is offline

    Decatur, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,402
    Joined: Aug 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 11:04am) in reply to gboro780

    First off, I understand you're reasoning behind wanting to isolate Boyd. Although you're hand is too weak in this case to do it. You've 3 bet the flop with a High Only hand. If the board ends up with 3 low cards you're splitting at best (unless of course you can get your opponent to lay his hand down, which he usually won't b/c they will have A2, A3, 23 etc).

    On the first hand, I would be confused. I don't think i would 3 bet the river with just the nut low, as with all that action you might end up quartering. So I think with your hand (both second nuts) its a must call. However, I would've re-raised on the flop. Now of course hindsight is always 20/20. But here is why I would re-raise. You have a hand that can make the second nut flush and respectable low (after the river). If I'm playing with you and you re-raise the flop, I give you credit for having A2 and I would fold my 23 or even a hand like A3 suited in clubs. But if your opponents are ones who will play 23 in hopes an ace falls on the turn or river, then I'd lay it down. I'm more proficient in PLO but I hope this offers some insight on how you could've played the hand.

    I'm what willis was talking about
  5. gboro780 gboro780 is offline

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    Joined: Apr 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 2:24pm) in reply to shighley3205

    Thanks for posting fellas.

    I definitely understand that having a good hi and lo hand is ideal and that we're going for both pots here. So do you fold AA hands with no low? Is that a losing hand over time?

    As far as the first hand goes, I like the idea of popping it up to disguise my hand, but I'm not sure if I like it considering my position. Check raising from the utg. Worst case scenario is that the original bettor repops it and the one of the others caps. I'm building up a sweet pot but really have no made hand whatsoever.

    Trying to plug some leaks in a game that I started to get good at early on this year but totally abandoned for NLHE. Maybe if you could post a HH where you made it work for you? Thanks
    647 121
    Thread Starter
  6. JPV JPV is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 25
    Joined: Aug 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 3:23pm) in reply to gboro780

    Your decision to lead at this flop and get involved in the hand is your biggest mistake. You don't have a good low or good high hand. What do you have? TROUBLE.

    Here are a couple of O8 important ideas:

    1. an ACE is a key card in this game (for low)
    2. if on a flush draw, draw only to the nuts
    3. if you're considering the gutshot draw as an "out," do not past Go...
  7. JPV JPV is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 25
    Joined: Aug 05

    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 3:39pm) in reply to gboro780

    "Starting Hand" selection is crucial in this game. Start with a good low: A2, A3, maybe A4 with suited ace, or 2345, 2346 (play only if an ace flops). Or start with a good high: 4 cards that total 40 or 41 (possibly 39). QJ24 just doesn't work, regardless of suits.
  8. bananadwayne bananadwayne is offline

    South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

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    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 4:41pm) in reply to JPV

    "QJ24 just doesn't work, regardless of suits."

    I agree, fold your BB in an unraised pot...sorry couldn't resist
  9. shighley3205 shighley3205 is offline

    Decatur, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,402
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    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 5:10pm) in reply to bananadwayne

    lol yes, muck that sh!t

    in response to my previous post

    I was just offering a way on how to play this hand. I think that once you check the turn after the made low comes, you're pretty much saying i dont have a good low, which explains why the 23 pops it on the river. If you raise the flop and then bet the turn you get the 23 to fold(most of the time) and even tho there is a straight on board "i'm not folding b/c i have the nut flush draw" player will call.

    The more I look at this hand it could've been played better almost on every street. Once you check the turn, you have to check/fold the river, esp when an ace hits. IMO you shouldn't ever smooth call in 8/b, unless of course you happen to get a free look with a hand like KKxx and the flop comes KKJ, since youre hand is pretty unbeatable and no low will come.

    I know a lot of people who will call down a low with A4 or 23 when you're holding A2 b/c "you didn't raise preflop so i didnt think you had A2" a good way to vary your play IMO

    sean
  10. JPV JPV is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 25
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    Oct 21st, 2005 (10/21/2005 6:48pm) in reply to bananadwayne

    My previous post specifically said he should not LEAD at the pot. This is a trash hand; he should have dumped it when there was action on the flop. Period.
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