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Tough spot

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  1. skysnolimit skysnolimit is offline

    MS
    United States

    Posts: 80
    Joined: May 09

    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 8:19pm)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #13821506036: $2 + 0.25 Sit & Go (101953597), Table 16 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:16:04 ET - 2009/08/04
    Seat 1: trpoda (6,400)
    Seat 2: pioballer3 (12,639)
    Seat 3: Steve-o103 (4,740)
    Seat 5: Shockeyvardi (5,165)
    Seat 6: green_beret21 (7,681)
    Seat 7: snakeater60 (2,080)
    Seat 8: skys_no_limit (7,511)
    Seat 9: wagwise (12,290)
    snakeater60 posts the small blind of 100
    skys_no_limit posts the big blind of 200
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to skys_no_limit [8c 9c]
    wagwise folds
    trpoda raises to 400
    pioballer3 folds
    Steve-o103 folds
    BeiGaLeH (Observer): look me up
    Shockeyvardi folds
    BeiGaLeH (Observer): i'm waiting at a table
    skys_no_limit: kk
    green_beret21 calls 400
    snakeater60 folds
    skys_no_limit calls 200
    *** FLOP *** [Tc 3c 6s]
    skys_no_limit checks
    trpoda bets 600
    green_beret21 folds
    skys_no_limit calls 600
    *** TURN *** [Tc 3c 6s] [8d]
    skys_no_limit checks
    trpoda bets 1,200
    skys_no_limit calls 1,200
    *** RIVER *** [Tc 3c 6s 8d] [Ts]
    skys_no_limit checks
    trpoda has 15 seconds left to act
    trpoda bets 4,200, and is all in
    skys_no_limit folds
    Uncalled bet of 4,200 returned to trpoda
    trpoda mucks
    trpoda wins the pot (4,900)
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 4,900 | Rake 0
    Board: [Tc 3c 6s 8d Ts]
    Seat 1: trpoda collected (4,900), mucked
    Seat 2: pioballer3 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 3: Steve-o103 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 5: Shockeyvardi didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 6: green_beret21 (button) folded on the Flop
    Seat 7: snakeater60 (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: skys_no_limit (big blind) folded on the River
    Seat 9: wagwise didn't bet (folded)
  2. LordPye LordPye is offline

    Annandale, VA
    United States

    Posts: 1,749
    Joined: May 08

    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:12am) in reply to skysnolimit

    I don't mean to pick on you, but this is a good hand for some commentary.

    Don't fret, this type of stuff will happen a lot at the lower limits. To play this hand well in this situation, you must be well-versed in solid post-flop play. You must be able to make the right moves to get exactly the reaction/info you need.

    What most lower limits players don't think about is how a hand will play out from start to finish overall. How certain moves and positions will deeply affect the hand at later streets. When you enter a hand, you have to paint a general picture on how things may/may not pan out. Here's an example of what to think about/how you could play this hand (this may or may not be optimum--this is just an example of things to think about--the bolded portions are very important things to think about as they will affect the hand on subsequent streets).

    Preflop:

    Villain min raises in early pos (has he done this often? what's his chip stack? have you seen him do this with other hands?

    Villain 2 calls on the button (what's his chip stack...how wide can he be calling here?)

    You (89s playable hand--there's 1100 in the pot...it's 5.5/1 right now to call--most low limit players stop the thinking here...they play each part of a hand "in a vacuum"--yes you are 5.5/1 on a call but you will be out of position against 2 villains for the rest of this pot and they have just about as many chips as you...still the odds are too nice to just pass up and a flop is well worth seeing here)

    Flop:

    You (Flopped a straight and flush draw...unfortunately the straight is a gutter ball and the flush is 9 high lol. Here you absolutely must make a decision on how you are gonna go about this hand. Play or release? Both are respectable decisions. Release you would simply check and fold. However, if you want to play, you have to try and take control of the hand. This can be achieved in a couple of ways. You can lead out in the pot--unfortunately if they call you are no closer to knowing exactly what they have and will be at their whim if you brick the turn--or you can check raise here. The check raise looks like a good option because it allows us to make easier decisions. This is imperative with this type of hand. The check raise does the following...

    1. It may allow us to simply take the pot down right now.
    2. If the villain simply calls the bet, we have nonetheless taken control of the hand. We can now check the turn (if we brick) and try and nab a free river card. Unless the villain is aggressive/has a very good hand, he'll likely check back. If he shows too much interest on the turn, we can release the hand.
    3. If the villain 3 bets us, we know we are in serious trouble and can easily fold here.

    Villain (Bets less than the size of the pot. Has he made this move often? Is this a fancy play or is he trying to control the pot?)

    Villain 2 (Fold)

    You Again (Reraise time. You checked and he led out. Go somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5x his bet. You could probably trim a lil off that too. Bumping it up to 1444 looks mighty nice.)

    Villain (Hypothetically fold, reraise, call)

    Turn:

    You (Hand improved, but not much to get excited about. Also, you no longer have a nut straight draw. This is for all intents and purposes a brick. Leading out here will just put too much of your chips in the pot. Hopefully your check-raise put enough scare in the villain to check it back to you.)

    Villain (Hypothetically Check/Bet)

    River:

    You (Another brick. Yuck, but in all actuality this may be a good card for us. If the villain doesn't have a 10 then it's quite possible he thinks we have it since we check raised the flop. I'd check again and hopefully be checked back to and win an icky showdown lol. At this point it just isn't good to put any more money into this pot.

    Villain (Hypothetical check/bet)

    ----------------------------------------------

    That's kinda a hypothetical of how this hand could possibly have played out differently. As you played it OP, I would probably fold the turn. The main problem being the fact that if you indeed hit your hand, it's unlikely the villain is gonna pay you off at all. The implied odds simply aren't there and it's quite possible you are calling to hit a hand that will get all your chips in and be a loser...an utter disaster.

    Again, as played I think if you're calling this turn you gotta be calling this river. Unfortunately, you will have to do so while pretty much knowing zero about the villain's hand.
  3. Salamander0 Salamander0 is offline

    Fredericton
    Canada

    Posts: 267
    Joined: Nov 08

    Aug 7th, 2009 (8/7/2009 10:29am) in reply to skysnolimit

    due to my short attention span i skimmed most of LordPye's post. but what he said. Very good reply by LordPye.
     
  4. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Aug 7th, 2009 (8/7/2009 4:00pm) in reply to LordPye

    I agree with lordpye here.

    Though, if your going to fold this flop on the flop, you really have no business calling the flop, even with juicy odds. You hit this very strong, 12 outs you have to think your ahead on, if your just check/folding, you should fold pre.

    On the flop, I really like a check/raise here. Check, and then if they bet, you raise it up. If they are willing to check, this gives you a free card, if someone bets, your raise will likely be scary. Not only that, on the flop, your hand is very strong, I don't think you mind getting your money in here, if it comes to that.

    But, this is where experience comes in. I think you need a plan before you make the preflop call. You hit this strong, but you strung yourself along where, if you hit, you won't likely get more, but you may pay off here.

    Raise the flop here.

    As played, I would have called the river bet. Strong bet and 2 10's out there, that looks more like a missed draw than trips.
  5. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

    Posts: 2,881
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 7th, 2009 (8/7/2009 5:53pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    c/r flop .. as played fold riv.. def JJ or QQ here maybe even 99
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