WTF do i do here? I have a good stack wtf should i do i have no clue. Not really anyreads on this guy but i havnt seen this big of a raise from him.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6779102879: The Fifty-Fifty (50958769), Table 67 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:38:03 ET - 2008/06/11

Seat 1: IamMerkinValdez (32,539)

Seat 2: vlatt138 (11,280)

Seat 3: drstraightaw (26,390)

Seat 4: kryber (84,038)

Seat 6: Shrubbery (67,338)

Seat 7: thedude1981 (42,350)

Seat 8: chasemedwn (80,588)

IamMerkinValdez antes 200

vlatt138 antes 200

drstraightaw antes 200

kryber antes 200

Shrubbery antes 200

thedude1981 antes 200

chasemedwn antes 200

Shrubbery posts the small blind of 800

thedude1981 posts the big blind of 1,600

The button is in seat #5

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Shrubbery [Ad Kh]

chasemedwn raises to 12,000

IamMerkinValdez folds

vlatt138 has 15 seconds left to act

Shrubbery: ty

vlatt138 is sitting out

vlatt138 has timed out

vlatt138 folds

drstraightaw folds

kryber calls 12,000

Shrubbery has 15 seconds left to act

Shrubbery ??????????????//

I squeeze and make this a monster pot. I don't care about the EP raise as stated above, and I would more then gladly race getting close to 2:1. Yes, he shows up with AA and KK alot here, but we don't have to give him credit for being a good player and he can show up with AQ as well. We also find ourselves in a 3 way pot with AKd against QQ and JJ or QQ and TT here alot where we are getting our money in GREAT. Yes, sometimes we are dominated and bust, but I think we can win enough when we get this big stack after the squeeze that it makes it +EV.

I think this is a fold a lotttt more often than most people think.

First of all the UTG 3x has to be scary to us as its often indicative of a big hand that's willing to go to the felt w/ you (TT+ id say).

Second of all that flat is horiffying. That's why your read on this player is really important. Sometimes he's just a moron who's flatting with any 2 suited broadway, and a ton of small-mid pairs, which would lean us towards a shove...

but a lot of the time, if the player is competent, this flat of an utg 3x is KK and AA. It sounds incredibly nitty to muck here but ive seen the flatting KK+ trend grow to a point that it's just absurd and has to be considered at least a legitimate part of the flatter's range.

I will agree with you lpaper that a read on kryber could easily justify a standard squeeze, which in any case I think is a potentially profitable play long run in this spot, but if he at all proved to be a capable player than he's very very likely to be flatting a 6x utg raise with an absolute monster. I would like to hear more responses b/c this situation is definitely an interesting one.

Mikery, with all respect 3 x BB (1600) = 4800, UTG raised to 12,000 and button flatted (7.5xBB raise)

oops, im dumb. in that case i lean even more towards folding.

lol at anything but a shove here

you are wrong frosty without any read. with that big of raise utg a lot of people will flat call with aa here. id probably still ship but id at least request the time bank

shove

i wasn't at the table, i can only assume by the UTG's idiot raise that he's been playing badly the whole time and calling on the button with AJ or AQ could easily be understandable if the button wanted to play a little smallball with him (why would he want to rr pre and lose his edge?). maybe UTG hasn't been playing bad and made a wierd raise, like i said i wasn't there but that's what i got from that HH. furthermore, the chances that either of them has AA or KK is extremely low considering you're holding one of the A's and the K's so you're either racing QQ or you pick up 24K + with no showdown.....why would you ever fold? you're not going to find another sick spot like this to get your money in

 

Originally Posted by sirswish6

and u need to gamble to win

Wow you don't! Please tell me what's your secret? How many tournaments have you won without taking coin flips? It must be like thousands 'cause you're so good!

In other news, please shove here all the time.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=center><TD vAlign=top align=left rowSpan=2> </TD><TD align=left colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Re:tough spot deep in 5050 </TD><TD vAlign=center align=right>In reply to </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>By Micdiddy on 06-11-2008 6:16 PM </TD><TD align=right>Reply Quote </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=P5_PostContent><TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ForumPostContentText>push baby. seriously this is a great spot, do u have proof these guys know what they're doing? ur only scared of AA or KK, i'd put it all in the middle.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR vAlign=bottom><TD class=P5_PostFooter><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Item>Report abuse </TD><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Item>Quick Reply </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I agree with Mcdiddy and I am shipping here. Anyone who opens with a 7.5 BB raise obviously has no idea what they are doing. Therefore, it makes the button's flatting range much wider. I think the UTG raiser shows up with 77-JJ most of the time. I also think the button could limp with AJs+ and 88-AA. As mentioned earlier, you are really only afraid of two hands and you are getting great odds to gamble.

One more thing. If the original raiser is stupid enough to raise that big to open the pot, he is probably stupid enough to call your shove with AQ.

Shove just because of the dead money in the pot... Plus AK please well versus most any range.