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Tough spot in FT 750k.

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  1. BantaCruz BantaCruz is offline

    Edinburgh
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 91
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:16am)

    What do you do here?

    FullTiltPoker Game #5020441880: $750,000 Guarantee (36773459), Table 439 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:36:35 ET - 2008/01/27

    Seat 1: idareyouAA (3,135)
    Seat 2: Jonny Finger (1,245)
    Seat 3: BaNt4_CrUz (2,955)
    Seat 4: collinx (2,595)
    Seat 5: bigtunacwj (4,850)
    Seat 6: A__theKevlar__2 (3,225)
    Seat 7: vvap (2,815)
    Seat 8: Riverofsoul (3,100)
    Seat 9: Linzy and Marky (3,080)
    vvap posts the small blind of 20
    Riverofsoul posts the big blind of 40
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to BaNt4_CrUz [4d 4h]
    Linzy and Marky has 15 seconds left to act
    Linzy and Marky folds
    idareyouAA folds
    Jonny Finger folds
    BaNt4_CrUz calls 40
    collinx has 15 seconds left to act
    collinx raises to 120
    bigtunacwj folds
    A__theKevlar__2 has 15 seconds left to act
    A__theKevlar__2 calls 120
    vvap folds
    Riverofsoul folds
    BaNt4_CrUz calls 80
    *** FLOP *** [5s Kd 2c]
    BaNt4_CrUz checks
    collinx has 15 seconds left to act
    collinx checks
    A__theKevlar__2 checks
    *** TURN *** [5s Kd 2c] [2d]
    BaNt4_CrUz has 15 seconds left to act
    BaNt4_CrUz bets 295
    collinx has 15 seconds left to act
    collinx calls 295
    A__theKevlar__2 calls 295
    *** RIVER *** [5s Kd 2c 2d] [4s]
    BaNt4_CrUz has 15 seconds left to act
    BaNt4_CrUz bets 535
    collinx has 15 seconds left to act
    collinx has requested TIME
    collinx calls 535
    A__theKevlar__2 has 15 seconds left to act
    A__theKevlar__2 has requested TIME
    A__theKevlar__2 raises to 2,810, and is all in
    BaNt4_CrUz .......?
  2. MaitreD MaitreD is offline

    Posts: 516
    Joined: Mar 07

    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:20am) in reply to BantaCruz

    You have the fourth nuts on a board that has seen no action. Looks to me like you need to call the shove. I don't think that A_the Kevlar would make this shove w/ a straight, so he is on air or a boat. His range could certainly include something that beats you, with pocket fives most likely, but there is a lot that doesn't beat you, too.
    I feel a little queasy as I call here, but I would do so and would be 30% sure I would get shown fives full of twos, and 70% sure I would take down the pot.
  3. MrQuietStrm MrQuietStrm is offline

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:21am) in reply to BantaCruz

    Open fold pre.
     
  4. Ally Ally is offline

    Minneapolis, MN
    United States

    Posts: 418
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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:24am) in reply to BantaCruz

    What are you losing to? 55? I call this 100% of the time. The dude could have 52/42/A3, maybe even K2s. You're ahead of everything except 22 and 55.
  5. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:26am) in reply to Ally

    I snap call this all day...
     
  6. BantaCruz BantaCruz is offline

    Edinburgh
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 91
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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:54am) in reply to Ally

    Do you really think the guy calls a raise preflop with 42 or 52? Even if he does 42 is highly unlikely as it would require the case 4 and surely 52 bets the flop as it is vulnerable. Does he really call the turn bet with A3? I just cant see any of those hands being possible.
    Thread Starter
  7. Ally Ally is offline

    Minneapolis, MN
    United States

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 11:10am) in reply to BantaCruz

    You lose to 22/55/KK. As far as 42s/52s/K2s goes, it's not unheard of for someone to play a speculative hand on the button with position when they're so deep stacked.

    So, you have to decide if the person is bluffing or shoving for value. If he's shoving for value, you have to have a big enough hand to call. Does he think you hit the straight? Does he have a higher straight? 63? Or, did he fill up somewhere along the way? If he thinks that you have a 2 and can't get away, then his shove of a straight or a small boat is correct for value. If he actually has a monster (KK/55/22), then good game.
  8. BantaCruz BantaCruz is offline

    Edinburgh
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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 5:20pm) in reply to Ally

    any more thoughts?
    Thread Starter
  9. FishOnTilt FishOnTilt is offline

    Sioux City, IA
    United States

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 5:24pm) in reply to BantaCruz

    get it in there...
     
  10. Diggs Diggs is offline

    Nanaimo
    Canada

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 5:29pm) in reply to FishOnTilt

    Looks like 55 to me but I get it in regardless....gg ul.
  11. kmil420 kmil420 is offline

    Los Altos, CA
    United States

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 5:34pm) in reply to Diggs

    You gotta call here. Puke if he shows you P5s. I think A2, A3 are likely holdings here. You have to figure this early in the tournament, there are still a lot of donks out there who will shove here with non-nut hands.
  12. irunBAD irunBAD is offline

    Santa Cruz, CA
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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 9:20pm) in reply to BantaCruz

    this is a snap call fist pump.
  13. rohanzsta rohanzsta is offline

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:10pm) in reply to BantaCruz

    55/22 are the only hands you are afraid of. unfortunately, this really looks like one of them
  14. Jaywoo Jaywoo is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:21pm) in reply to rohanzsta

  15. Jaywoo Jaywoo is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:22pm) in reply to BantaCruz

    I think that kk or 55 is possible but im not sure that he or many others would have the disapline to ck both the flop and the turn with a flopped set in a nl tourney...Quads are the same case..he probably would have bet the turn with the hopes that someone hit the king then tried to slowplay it then caught 2pair on the turn.....i feel this is an instacall and then just bad luck to see kk or 22 or 55...thats just 3 hands out of over a thousand that beat you. If you fold here you are playing way too tight!
  16. stevieg987 stevieg987 is offline

    Huntington, NY
    United States

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    Jan 30th, 2008 (1/30/2008 10:26pm) in reply to BantaCruz

    Gotta Call here if he has 55 then gg you got coolered by that river but kevlar is capable of making a move like this with air.
  17. BantaCruz BantaCruz is offline

    Edinburgh
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    Jan 31st, 2008 (1/31/2008 6:14am) in reply to stevieg987

    I basically used the same thinking all of you guys did and made the call only for him to flip 55. Guess we just chalk it up as a horrible river.
    Thread Starter
  18. BantaCruz BantaCruz is offline

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    Jan 31st, 2008 (1/31/2008 6:55am) in reply to BantaCruz

    I think too many people are looking at this hand and thinking you have a full house you can not fold. So what could he be holding?

    42 - Unlikely as it requires him to have called a raise preflop with 42 and would require the case 4.
    52 - Again unlikely he calls a raise preflop with this and i think he would bet the flop with this holding as it is so vulnerable.
    K2 - unlikely again due to calling a preflop raise.
    A3/36 - Is kevlar really calling that bet on the turn with a gutshot hoping to hit a straight on a paired board. Surely he should be just flat calling on the river aswell.
    KK - This is pretty unlikely due to no reraise preflop.
    55/22 - Everything about the way the hand played out fits with a low/medium pocket pair that flopped a set.
    AIR - Does kevlar really pull a monster bluff here with air against 2 opponents? Again i think this is unlikely. Why would he not bet the flop when it is checked to him. Or make the raise on the turn when he would not be risking so much of his stack. He still has 2.8k on the river and i dont think he is going to risk getting crippled trying to make a monster bluff v 2 unknown opponents this early in the tournament.

    I think the key to this hand is the presence of collinx. I think it reduces the chance of a bluff/value bet with a straight sufficiently for this to be a fold. Note if this was heads up between me and kevlar i snap call.

    Flame away.
    Thread Starter
  19. cashhog cashhog is offline

    Sherwood, AR
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    Jan 31st, 2008 (1/31/2008 8:33am) in reply to MrQuietStrm

    <TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">BINGO</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  20. MaitreD MaitreD is offline

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    Jan 31st, 2008 (1/31/2008 9:20am) in reply to Jaywoo

    A_the Kevlar wouldn't have the discipline? I am sorry, I can't make it past that first sentence of your post. If anybody would have the discipline to check it, he would. It is more likely that he would have 5s or Ks than a random in his seat. Ks obviously less likely.
  21. stevieg987 stevieg987 is offline

    Huntington, NY
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    Jan 31st, 2008 (1/31/2008 10:27am) in reply to BantaCruz

    After looking back over this hand I think betting this turn is your big mistake here with 44 you missed your set you should pretty much shut down now your playing this river out of position and no idea where you stand. You got yourself backed down into a corner from this river and have no idea what the holdings could be. Now Kevlar could shove over these two bets sensing weakness in both of you figuring you could easily be trying to buy this pot because you would C/C a K and he knows you 90 percent of the time aint playing a 2 in your hand or KK. So he could never assume you to have a boat therefore you gotta think he could have air because clearly collinx is making a hero call with 99-qq. So i could imagine air on occasion but your check fold this turn and you have no problem and are still in this tourney. You can def fold in this spot would have been nice laydown ut you can chalk this up as a semi-cooler.
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