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Tough spot preflop with JJ... what to do?

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  1. thefuture23 thefuture23 is offline

    Springfield, OH
    United States

    Posts: 242
    Joined: Aug 06

    Dec 17th, 2007 (12/17/2007 7:34pm)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #4536940369: $5 + $0.50 Knockout (34310142), Table 62 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:26:01 ET - 2007/12/17

    Seat 1: NDIrishCJ (2,090)

    Seat 2: fsu238686 (9,620)

    Seat 3: win4life1 (2,456)

    Seat 4: 2play4 (805)

    Seat 5: HockeyGoaltndr (1,540)

    Seat 6: THEfuture23 (5,915)

    Seat 7: Hawkbill (1,400)

    Seat 8: ksol4 (1,040)

    Seat 9: NavySpecwarfare (975)

    HockeyGoaltndr posts the small blind of 25

    THEfuture23 posts the big blind of 50

    The button is in seat #4

    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    Dealt to THEfuture23 [Jc Js]

    NavySpecwarfare: nh

    Hawkbill calls 50

    ksol4 folds

    NavySpecwarfare folds

    THEfuture23: ty

    NDIrishCJ raises to 100

    fsu238686 folds

    win4life1 raises to 2,456, and is all in

    2play4 folds

    HockeyGoaltndr folds

    THEfuture23 has 15 seconds left to act

    THEfuture23 has requested TIME

    NDIrishCJ: wow love the overbet

    THEfuture23 ??????

    Here's the situation: the IR just got moved to my table about 10 hands ago and after watching him show down 2 hands, I figured he was a pretty good player judging by the way he played those hands. However, this min raise threw me off. The overbetter just got moved to my table a couple hands before this and hadn't played anything. For what it's worth, I won a pretty big pot with QQ the hand right before this. What would you do? I'll post the results and my thought process after a few responses.
  2. acp acp is offline

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    Dec 20th, 2007 (12/20/2007 10:25am) in reply to thefuture23

    From my micro grinding perspective.

    I hate minraises they confuse me quite often, but it usually is a weak player doing it IMO. You say ND is good, but I see the minraise at this level usually when the player has a weak holding compared to JJ, some kind of suited connector or smaller pair. The only other hand I see is AA, but honestly his comment tells me almost for certain he does not have AA and is going to fold to the overbet.

    Win4life's reraise all in is kind of confusing too, but since you do not have any particular read on him and not very good pot odds chances are you have to lay the jacks down, and I'm pretty confident that's what you did. But lets say for a second you decide to call, I would respect this decision because his range is 99+ IMO and AQ+. At best you are probably racing his AQ or AK, but there is a good chance he made this move with 99 or 10's and you are dominating, but QQ, KK and AA is obv way ahead of you, which are in the range I mentioned.

    Hopefully you display the results, because I really would like to see what happened.
  3. losfer losfer is offline

    Perry, MI
    United States

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    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 20th, 2007 (12/20/2007 10:31am) in reply to thefuture23

    I feel like the push is a big hand. If you'd seen him do it before, then I'd call, but since he's been quite up until now, I have to give hom credit. I doubt JJ is much of a favorite against his range.

    With the min-raiserer behind you, I think that makes it a bit easier to fold.

    Having written all of that, I'd would have called.
  4. acp acp is offline

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    Dec 20th, 2007 (12/20/2007 10:40am) in reply to losfer

    My instinct is to muck here too, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a race situation or pkt 10's, but that is not enough incentive for me to risk 40 - 45% of my stack.
  5. thefuture23 thefuture23 is offline

    Springfield, OH
    United States

    Posts: 242
    Joined: Aug 06

    Dec 23rd, 2007 (12/23/2007 11:05pm) in reply to acp

    Sorry about the delay. I forgot all about posting this. And, since I played this particular tournament on my new laptop, I don't have the hand history saved. But, I still remember this hand pretty thoroughly.

    First off, my range of hands on the overbetter was similar to acp's, except I put him on AK or TT+. I didn't see him shoving AQ, 99 or worse because he hadn't been very active, although I'm sure he was a weak player, so he could have been. The most likely hands for him, in my opinion, were TT, QQ, or AK. I have seen many players make enourmous over bets with these hands because they were scared to play flops or "are tired of seeing kings and aces flop everytime they get queens". So, according to my read, I'm dominating one hand, being dominated by another, and in a coinflip with the last hand. With my stack the way it was, and the confidence that I was the best player at the table, I did decide to fold my jacks here. I figured that, of the 3 hands that I thought he was likely to have, I would only really like to be up against one, which is TT, obv. I didn't want to risk that much of my stack on a coinflip, and I obviously didn't want to be down to 2 outs if he had QQ.

    And of course, I was 6 outered on the river in a huge pot that would have put me in the top 10 in chips, and I bubbled.
    Thread Starter
  6. acp acp is offline

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    Dec 24th, 2007 (12/24/2007 12:29am) in reply to thefuture23

    so what hand did he have?
  7. thefuture23 thefuture23 is offline

    Springfield, OH
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    Posts: 242
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    Dec 24th, 2007 (12/24/2007 2:27am) in reply to acp

    He didn't show. The other player folded too and he mucked his hand.
    Thread Starter
  8. MetalGod MetalGod is offline

    Thomaston, CT
    United States

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    Dec 24th, 2007 (12/24/2007 9:57am) in reply to thefuture23

    With no reads, there's nothing wrong with laying down jacks here as this is a pretty good portion of your stack and you only have 50 chips invested. The overbet shows that he's probably a pretty weak player as no one with any sort of common sense would make that bet in this spot. Maybe there's a slight chance you're ahead of him and he has 99 or TT, but honestly the best scenario I could see here is a coinflip. Judging by your thought process alone, I'd have no doubts that you could pick a better spot and outplay this donk.
  9. finewhine finewhine is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Dec 24th, 2007 (12/24/2007 2:57pm) in reply to MetalGod

    ^^^^^^cosign
  10. Bigchip79 Bigchip79 is offline

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    Dec 24th, 2007 (12/24/2007 7:07pm) in reply to thefuture23

    ez ez ez fold..unless this guy has been pushing alot .. or be making same moves with Ax i d0nt see how u can call ... f0ld plzzzz
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