About 140 left, top 71 get paid in the 10K on stars. Average stack is around 9500. Wondering what you guys think I should be doing in this spot. No real reads on villain. He just got moved to the table.

pokerstars Game #29721275794: Tournament #173033686, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/06/24 0:44:45 PT [2009/06/24 3:44:45 ET]

Table '173033686 33' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: mflippy (17668 in chips)
Seat 2: mamalon313 (7290 in chips)
Seat 3: Bluegoose184 (7405 in chips)
Seat 4: TJ_717_4 (5595 in chips)
Seat 5: NarcoCop (7210 in chips)
Seat 6: Inigknokt (8030 in chips)
Seat 7: Greg Boston (16725 in chips)
Seat 8: Robthedlphin (5220 in chips)
Seat 9: gaia-nietsa (7057 in chips)
mflippy: posts the ante 25
mamalon313: posts the ante 25
Bluegoose184: posts the ante 25
TJ_717_4: posts the ante 25
NarcoCop: posts the ante 25
Inigknokt: posts the ante 25
Greg Boston: posts the ante 25
Robthedlphin: posts the ante 25
gaia-nietsa: posts the ante 25
Bluegoose184: posts small blind 125
TJ_717_4: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mflippy [Qd Qc]
NarcoCop: folds
Inigknokt: folds
Greg Boston: raises 350 to 600
Robthedlphin: folds
gaia-nietsa: folds
mflippy: raises 1200 to 1800
mamalon313: folds
Bluegoose184: folds
TJ_717_4: folds
Greg Boston: raises 14900 to 16700 and is all-in
mflippy: ???

rediculous post imo

 

Originally Posted by elusively

I'd try to figure out how much of his range is AA/KK with this massive overshove and act accordingly. I'd also DB him real quick and see if he's a winning player or not and how much volume he puts in.

We're too deep to just call off simply because we 3-bet, that might be worse than raise/folding with 66BB's effective.

I probably call this because I think he shows up with JJ/AK enough for it to be profitable, but against some players this is definitely a fold. I actually think against randoms this could be a fold because they just aren't 4-bet shoving light this deep.

this is wrong.

this is a standard snap call. anything other than here is totally disgusting,

 

Originally Posted by jamie16119

this is wrong.

this is a standard snap call. anything other than here is totally disgusting,

I'm trying to learn, so please explain to me how it's a "standard snap call" for a MASSIVE pot at 125/250?

I know we need to win flips to win tourneys. I am not scared to put chips in the pot when I think I have an edge, regardless of how marginal it is. I don't assign a high value to "tourney life" in my thought process here.

Maybe it's a leak that I have a problem SNAP CALLING a 60BB bet from someone that I have no read on who has shown strength.

I also said I would call and you said call, so I'm not sure how I'm wrong. I also don't see how a fold would be "totally disgusting" here. It may be -EV, but it can't be "totally disgusting".

 

Originally Posted by elusively

 

Originally Posted by jamie16119

this is wrong.

this is a standard snap call. anything other than here is totally disgusting,

I'm trying to learn, so please explain to me how it's a "standard snap call" for a MASSIVE pot at 125/250?

I know we need to win flips to win tourneys. I am not scared to put chips in the pot when I think I have an edge, regardless of how marginal it is. I don't assign a high value to "tourney life" in my thought process here.

Maybe it's a leak that I have a problem SNAP CALLING a 60BB bet from someone that I have no read on who has shown strength.

I also said I would call and you said call, so I'm not sure how I'm wrong. I also don't see how a fold would be "totally disgusting" here. It may be -EV, but it can't be "totally disgusting".

A good player basically never makes this bet with AA and KK because he's pushing all inferior hands out of the pot. This bet is usually AK or a medium pair like 99-JJ.

 

Originally Posted by elusively

 

Originally Posted by jamie16119

his range there is 22++ aj+ .

so you're saying he is 4-bet shoving his entire opening range with 60BB's??

sick analysis

We're beating JJ+/AK so his range isn't really the issue here. How much it's polarized to inferior hands and AA/KK is what we should be concerned with.

Can't emphasize enough that I believe this to be a call, but a super snap insta-fist pump call, not so much.

yeah with a fuckin dumb move like that he is shoving all his openning range imo
its still a super instant snap call.

for the love of god PLEASE know what ur gonna do BEFORE u 3bet!

Doubt anything is more tilting than someone who 3bets then timebank/calls.

 

Originally Posted by Charlamaigne

 

Originally Posted by firaldo

for the love of god PLEASE know what ur gonna do BEFORE u 3bet!

Doubt anything is more tilting than someone who 3bets then timebank/calls.

When there are still players left to act you dont know what can happen. What if a really tight aggro player pushes over the top of you for like 60BBs? Ive seen people make this play with KK or AA all the time. It depends on the situation.

And thats kind of what I was getting at. He is a winning player and probably has the knowledge of how people at these levels think. If by over shoving leaves people to believe he is actually kind of weak (88+ AJ+), then I'm sure over shoving AA/KK is +EV here to a 3bett'r. JMO

 

Originally Posted by Charlamaigne

 

Originally Posted by firaldo

for the love of god PLEASE know what ur gonna do BEFORE u 3bet!

Doubt anything is more tilting than someone who 3bets then timebank/calls.

When there are still players left to act you dont know what can happen. What if a really tight aggro player pushes over the top of you for like 60BBs? Ive seen people make this play with KK or AA all the time. It depends on the situation.

If u get cold 4 balled thats different. What i meant was if the original raiser ships u should know whether ur calling or folding before u 3bet.

please dont not play poker if u ppl think that if u 3 bet you must insta call.....stop it!!!! learn the game plz its a mind game...you have plenty of chips to keep playing IF you feel you're bet than you can fold here...if not than call..plz put me at a table wit all who posted here bc the next time i will extremely over bet like this with AA or KK and have you ship me all ur chips and you can hit the rail thinking y would he do that? Did it bc I knew you'd ship....plz act accordingly, it's so ridiculous tht u ppl assume that if u 3 bet you must call everything...STOP!!

 

Originally Posted by elee

please dont not play poker if u ppl think that if u 3 bet you must insta call.....stop it!!!! learn the game plz its a mind game...you have plenty of chips to keep playing IF you feel you're bet than you can fold here...if not than call..plz put me at a table wit all who posted here bc the next time i will extremely over bet like this with AA or KK and have you ship me all ur chips and you can hit the rail thinking y would he do that? Did it bc I knew you'd ship....plz act accordingly, it's so ridiculous tht u ppl assume that if u 3 bet you must call everything...STOP!!

lol pleaseeeee. you have QQ. Folding here is absurd unless you think JJ is not in his range.

 

Originally Posted by telks

 

Originally Posted by elee

please dont not play poker if u ppl think that if u 3 bet you must insta call.....stop it!!!! learn the game plz its a mind game...you have plenty of chips to keep playing IF you feel you're bet than you can fold here...if not than call..plz put me at a table wit all who posted here bc the next time i will extremely over bet like this with AA or KK and have you ship me all ur chips and you can hit the rail thinking y would he do that? Did it bc I knew you'd ship....plz act accordingly, it's so ridiculous tht u ppl assume that if u 3 bet you must call everything...STOP!!

lol pleaseeeee. you have QQ. Folding here is absurd unless you think JJ is not in his range.

I am not saying fold or call. I am saying Stop saying you CANT 3 bet unless you are gonna snap call. which everyone is saying. I personally like my 60+ BB's and IF I decide to muck I have plently of chips to continue my play.

10k guar i assume its like a 10$ or somethin , even tho greg is knowledgable u dont give any history like uve 3bet him the last 5x hes opened which would make it an "easier" call............ so even tho its gotta be a call bc greg shows up with jj and AK its not a super insta fist pump call knowing that its a low buyin where people dont make 3bets of ur sizing with rando hands/or ftmp at all and greg would def realize as much so hes not a rando idiot who shoves AQ or 99 here

I love getting involved in spots like this. With 140 left and 71 that cash you are getting close to the money. You say that you've been raising and picking up small pots frequently, well that is good. If you want to play it safe and fold you'll be grinding out a stack trying to get in the money. If you call in this spot and win you have alot of chips and can steamroll the money bubble, etc.. Theres a chance that he might have AA or KK but chalk it up to a cooler if he does. This overshove is too fishy to not call with QQ. Once you looked up his stats you can assign hand ranges but Im seriously never folding here because if we win we are in great shape to final table this as opposed to folding and trying to grind.

3 bet folding QQ is pretty weak. Then you go on to say you think 1010+ is in his range and you still folded? Please do not 3 bet QQ if you're aren't trying to get the chips in, it makes no sense. You'll have an even easier time chipping up when you are 125+ bbs at 125/250.