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I'll post the results in a little bit but want to get some opinions on this hand first. Had a lot of tables going at this time so didn't have a real good read on 8L4CK, everyone here knows lilholdem is a top player but at at the same time very capable of the squeeze here. I had every intention of coming over the top of lil until he beat me to it......what is the best play here?
pokerstars Game #9634866224: Tournament #48311505, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit -
Level IX (300/600) - 2007/04/27 - 15:18:39 (ET)
Table '48311505 13' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: dannysek (9460 in chips)
Seat 2: lilholdem954 (29523 in chips)
Seat 3: a lert (2965 in chips)
Seat 4: mikeAA1981 (11630 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerorz (21356 in chips)
Seat 8: r0ttan (5089 in chips)
Seat 9: 8L4CK 5W4N (12112 in chips)
dannysek: posts the ante 50
lilholdem954: posts the ante 50
a lert: posts the ante 50
mikeAA1981: posts the ante 50
pokerorz: posts the ante 50
r0ttan: posts the ante 50
8L4CK 5W4N: posts the ante 50
mikeAA1981: posts small blind 300
pokerorz: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dannysek [Qs Qc]
r0ttan: folds
8L4CK 5W4N: raises 1200 to 1800
dannysek: calls 1800
lilholdem954: raises 4200 to 6000
a lert: folds
mikeAA1981: folds
pokerorz: folds
8L4CK 5W4N: raises 6062 to 12062 and is all-in
?????????????????????????? -
Posts: 933
Joined: Dec 05Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:27pm) in reply to dannysek
Please don't ever fold QQ with that stack
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Posts: 1,154
Joined: Mar 05Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:33pm) in reply to dannysek
Personally, I'm all in before lilholdem gets a chance to reraise preflop. That said, I think this is a must call.
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Posts: 162
Joined: Feb 07Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:42pm) in reply to fishm0nger
Your "M" was low, you had to push before other guy and just hopet he chip leader didn't have KK or AA......can't fold with your low stack.
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Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 06Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:47pm) in reply to wins mainpot
I was in a similar spot. Should I have called? B-Didds had been playing tight but faizel222 was raising more than his fair share of pots and was always looking for a reason to get involved.
pokerstars Game #9617919086: Tournament #48311308, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2007/04/26 - 14:24:42 (ET)
Table '48311308 96' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Sypho (29667 in chips)
Seat 2: faizel222 (12471 in chips)
Seat 3: gaoutlaw13 (2780 in chips)
Seat 4: DanHoppeJr (20275 in chips)
Seat 5: SiktaMN (11901 in chips)
Seat 6: B-Didds (12664 in chips)
Seat 7: mperkins26 (12790 in chips)
Seat 8: KKeo (9906 in chips)
Seat 9: Pythomunoz (7228 in chips)
Sypho: posts the ante 50
faizel222: posts the ante 50
gaoutlaw13: posts the ante 50
DanHoppeJr: posts the ante 50
SiktaMN: posts the ante 50
B-Didds: posts the ante 50
mperkins26: posts the ante 50
KKeo: posts the ante 50
Pythomunoz: posts the ante 50
B-Didds: posts small blind 300
mperkins26: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SiktaMN [Qd Qh]
KKeo: folds
Pythomunoz: folds
Sypho: folds
faizel222: raises 600 to 1200
gaoutlaw13: folds
DanHoppeJr: folds
SiktaMN: raises 2300 to 3500
B-Didds: raises 9114 to 12614 and is all-in
mperkins26: folds
faizel222: calls 11221 and is all-in -
Posts: 122
Joined: Jun 06Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:51pm) in reply to wins mainpot
MY M was low but if i fold i still had over 10 BBs to work with. My stack wasn't that low, at the time there were about 30 left (top 18 pay) and i was sitting around 12-14. Just happened to have 3 of the top 5 stacks at my table. That's what i questioned, why would the initial raiser risk his entire stack without AA, KK, AK against the only guy that could wipe him out.
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Posts: 1,760
Joined: Jan 06Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 4:54pm) in reply to dannysek
I dont see how it is an instacall, but AK87 results speak for themself...
AK87 can you explain as to why there would be no reasonng behind a fold here??
Is it totally impossible to be up against AK, AA or KK???
lilhodem has the rep, but does have real hands sometimes...
For us people trying to grasp the thinking behind top notch players, can you please explain your thinking behind how you would play this hand?
thanks bro -
with lil his range is lrage and therefore the ir has a wide r range to push with ure smooth call its an instacall u got the action u wanted if ure beat so be it the only way u might be able to fold is a raise to say 3975 and if lil pushes and ir instacalls maybe u can fold MAYBE
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Posts: 1,730
Joined: Nov 06Apr 27th, 2007 (4/27/2007 7:02pm) in reply to irunBAD
why on earth did you flat call that raise?
and you have to get it in. thes eplayers are v aggressive and you have a premium hand. -
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Posts: 122
Joined: Jun 06Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 8:39am) in reply to rcrane082985
Yea i agree, here are the results......I played the hand very poorly by flat calling the initial raise. I like to mix up with QQ and not always reraise and see the flop first, but at this stage of the tourney i should have threw them in right away. Still managed to cash but would have had a big stack to hammer the bubble with if i call there. The 3rd raise is always AA right? WRONG!! Thanks for the thoughts.
pokerstars Game #9634866224: Tournament #48311505, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit -
Level IX (300/600) - 2007/04/27 - 15:18:39 (ET)
Table '48311505 13' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: dannysek (9460 in chips)
Seat 2: lilholdem954 (29523 in chips)
Seat 3: a lert (2965 in chips)
Seat 4: mikeAA1981 (11630 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerorz (21356 in chips)
Seat 8: r0ttan (5089 in chips)
Seat 9: 8L4CK 5W4N (12112 in chips)
dannysek: posts the ante 50
lilholdem954: posts the ante 50
a lert: posts the ante 50
mikeAA1981: posts the ante 50
pokerorz: posts the ante 50
r0ttan: posts the ante 50
8L4CK 5W4N: posts the ante 50
mikeAA1981: posts small blind 300
pokerorz: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dannysek [Qs Qc]
r0ttan: folds
8L4CK 5W4N: raises 1200 to 1800
dannysek: calls 1800
lilholdem954: raises 4200 to 6000
a lert: folds
mikeAA1981: folds
pokerorz: folds
8L4CK 5W4N: raises 6062 to 12062 and is all-in
dannysek: folds
lilholdem954: calls 6062
*** FLOP *** [Js 9d 5c]
dannysek said, "QQ"
*** TURN *** [Js 9d 5c] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [Js 9d 5c 6d] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
8L4CK 5W4N: shows [Tc Ac] (a pair of Nines)
lilholdem954: shows [Ad Qh] (a pair of Nines - Ace+Queen kicker)
8L4CK 5W4N is sitting out
dannysek said, "$#^%#$^#$^#$^#$^%#$"
lilholdem954 collected 27174 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 27174 | Rake 0
Board [Js 9d 5c 6d 9h]
Seat 1: dannysek folded before Flop
Seat 2: lilholdem954 showed [Ad Qh] and won (27174) with a pair of Nines
Seat 3: a lert (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mikeAA1981 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: pokerorz (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: r0ttan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: 8L4CK 5W4N showed [Tc Ac] and lost with a pair of Nines -
Posts: 804
Joined: Sep 06Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 12:38pm) in reply to dannysek
def cant fold here... just a TERRIBLE lay down ur stack is too low, hand was played horrible from the get when u smooth called, after that the way it plays outs makes it a relatively easy call. as for ak87 he always replies first and every hand is an insta call... i think he'd prob call an all in with ur stack with a q and a suited card from an uno deck... lol ozzie ownz.
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Posts: 10,711
Joined: Jun 06Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 1:00pm) in reply to four6suited
lol... Ozzy really does respond with instacall everytime. That post made me laugh. Off to instacall my money away at the casino now!
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Posts: 933
Joined: Dec 05Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 1:30pm) in reply to Fife19
Lmao, just got up and decided to check out this thread again because I think I responded. Um, OP and everyone else who asked me questions in this thread, this should be your thought process. When you have that stack with those blinds, QQ is an insta all in pretty much regardless of the action. When the initial raiser opens, if you plan on flat calling, it should be with the intention of either:
A. Getting a squeeze from someone behind you, to which you obviously insta call or
B. Getting it all in no matter what flop comes
When you guys see me responding to threads with "insta all in" "insta call," they always should be. What many new players don't realize about tournaments is that your stack dictates your play a large percentage of the time and there are just so many situations where you have to go just stick it in and gamble. If you don't take these spots and gamble to get chips to inevitably win the tourney, your just going to be another idiot who posts bad beats about how their AA lost to my J10ss when I raised in LP and you shoved giving me odds. You have to take chances and accumulate to win a tourney. Folding QQ here at any point during the hand is pretty large spewage and not recommended by me. -
Posts: 127
Joined: Mar 06Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 1:42pm) in reply to dannysek
With the reraise by player 1 and lilholdems stacksize making a call likely that is a fold. also you are likely at best 80% loser to allin betting by river. Save chips for a better situation son unless you are a big volme guy like ari and can call an obv overpair all in with an underpair and just play another. That is how the frequent players play including lilholdem who I watch every day they push chips a lot and play a lot of tourneys . the top guys are entering a huge amount of tourneys. FOLD,FOLD, FOLD.
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Posts: 127
Joined: Mar 06Apr 28th, 2007 (4/28/2007 1:49pm) in reply to dannysek
Well i posted without reading the result. you were a better favorite at that. I say err on the conservative side and wait until you have them in a worse position.The thing is you are right you needed to move in and risk aa kk and ak holdings. Not that great of a move with qq. I have tried both routes and my long term result is CLEARLY in favor of the conservative! at least until the very late stages of tourney
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Posts: 122
Joined: Jun 06Apr 30th, 2007 (4/30/2007 1:14am) in reply to akfishkiller
Well QQ may have cost me some money the other day but it got me a seat to the WSOP tonight. Woooooohoooooo!!!
pokerstars Game #9675868066: Tournament #48484848, $615+$35 Hold'em No Limit -
Level XI (600/1200) - 2007/04/29 - 23:57:23 (ET)
Table '48484848 50' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: FyteOn (19023 in chips)
Seat 3: Grizzly Joe (31885 in chips)
Seat 4: dannysek (22632 in chips)
Seat 5: MadHattter (26139 in chips)
Seat 6: joeljaden (33633 in chips)
Seat 7: mcst0002 (16834 in chips)
Seat 8: postbear (41004 in chips) is sitting out
FyteOn: posts the ante 75
Grizzly Joe: posts the ante 75
dannysek: posts the ante 75
MadHattter: posts the ante 75
joeljaden: posts the ante 75
mcst0002: posts the ante 75
postbear: posts the ante 75
dannysek: posts small blind 600
MadHattter: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dannysek [Qs Qh]
joeljaden: folds
mcst0002: folds
postbear: folds
FyteOn: folds
Grizzly Joe: raises 30610 to 31810 and is all-in
dannysek: calls 21957 and is all-in
MadHattter: folds
*** FLOP *** [6d Jh 8d]
*** TURN *** [6d Jh 8d] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [6d Jh 8d 9s] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dannysek: shows [Qs Qh] (a pair of Queens)
Grizzly Joe: shows [7s 7d] (a pair of Sevens)
dannysek collected 46839 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 46839 | Rake 0
Board [6d Jh 8d 9s 2s]
Seat 1: FyteOn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Grizzly Joe (button) showed [7s 7d] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 4: dannysek (small blind) showed [Qs Qh] and won (46839) with a pair of
Queens
Seat 5: MadHattter (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: joeljaden folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mcst0002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: postbear folded before Flop (didn't bet) -
Posts: 545
Joined: Mar 06Apr 30th, 2007 (4/30/2007 9:22am) in reply to dannysek
i kind of like the flat call if ur intentions are to trap an over aggressive player with chips (lilholdem). that said, you cant fold if u set up the play....
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