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Tourney Player Switching to Cash Game Player

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  1. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 7:59pm)

    I've been doing pretty well in cash games lately and am considering being primarily a cash game player instead of a tourney player. I've been really cold in tourneys of late and don't seem to enjoy them much at all anymore. In the future I'd still play some tourneys, just very few and only the big weekend tourneys.

    Does anyone have any comments or experience they'd want to share about making the transition?
     
  2. smartplays smartplays is offline

    Phoenix, AZ
    United States

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 9:23pm) in reply to Qcity

    I'm contemplating the same thing and would be interested in some advice as well if anyone has anything to say about this.
  3. snugglez88 snugglez88 is offline

    Marblehead, MA
    United States

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 9:29pm) in reply to smartplays

    I used to play almost solely sngs/ mtt's and switched to cash. Thusfar is was a great decision, up huge. My reccomendation would be to start small. Get a couple thousand hands at the lower levels and move up quickly after making some buy-ins.
     
  4. keldakel keldakel is offline

    Osceola, IN
    United States

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 9:29pm) in reply to smartplays

    Just remember that you can have the same bad run in cash games it is as just a brutal.. just my 2 cents
  5. llHessll llHessll is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
    United States

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:08pm) in reply to keldakel

    I made the same switch.. I use to play SnG's almost exclusively and made good money but it just felt like such a grind. I've been trying out NL cash games, with heavily varying sucess. Its just a lot more entertaining and challenging for me, and I like the idea of quiting when I want. I'm trying to slowly move up the NL Cash Game latter.
  6. bdluss bdluss is offline

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:13pm) in reply to Qcity

    Probably a huge piece of advice is to control tilt. Remember in cash games you can burn through alot of $ on tilt where as in a tourny you only lose a tourny buy in. From Greensteins book, most of the $ made and lost in poker at higher levels is made from people who are playing on tilt.

    The other recommendation I would make to help control this is to create a stop loss for a session or a day.
     
  7. The Knish The Knish is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:26pm) in reply to Qcity

    First thing I'll say is that cash requires not only good play but good bankroll management. Tourneys do as well or at least they should but most tourney players aren't sincerely looking for consistent profit. Remember I said most so I'm not saying there aren't smart tourney players when it comes to their bankrolls as well as some excellent players that win with consistency.

    There are lots of approaches and you will need to find one that works for you so read some articles on the subject and actually write out a plan for yourself. Make adjustments to that plan as you may need to as well.

    With the changes in tourney play as Wachovia has covered very well in his recent article, cash for some players is probably a good option tp incorporate in addition to tourney play.

    Also look to the Q & A on cardplayer.com. with Scott Fishman. I believe he had some answers to some questions that pertain very well to this subject.

    Best way to put it is to think like Joey Knish and not like Mike Mc Dermott. Mike takes down KGB in the end of the movie "Rounders" but in reality many players even very good and excellent players go broke because they don't manage the bankroll well.

    hope the cash transition is a good one.
  8. johns05 johns05 is offline

    Chicago, IL
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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:26pm) in reply to Qcity

    I just started playing cash games recently as well. My question to cash game players is when do you stop. Is it a set amount you win or lose, or a certain time period. Any advice would be appreciated.

    johns05
     
  9. llHessll llHessll is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:38pm) in reply to johns05

    Ideally you shouldn't stop based on short term results, but only your playing abilities and comfort level.. It would be useful to create some kind of "stop order" where say if you lose a pot greater than "x" or lose "$x" within a certain time period you force yourself to take a break. I know I should implement something like this, perhaps a 10 minute break, because I have trouble with tilting.. For example, at a $1/$2 NL table I can go from $200 to $350 , but then if I lose $50 I'll begin tilting and often lose the rest back, sometimes more..
  10. OMG_LOL_WTF OMG_LOL_WTF is offline

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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:52pm) in reply to llHessll

    Do not underestimated the value of rags.
  11. WonderCall WonderCall is offline

    Phoenix, AZ
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    Jul 9th, 2006 (7/9/2006 10:56pm) in reply to OMG_LOL_WTF

    learn to play deep stack poker.
  12. Qcity Qcity is offline

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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 5:01am) in reply to Qcity

    Currently I am crushing the cash game I'm playing averaging $300 an hour profit, or 50 BB/ 100 hands. This is only over my last 30 hours of play, or last 2,000 hands but I think it can continue, just maybe not at that rate.

    I agree with the comment that cash games seem to be all about taking advantage of tilted players, wealthy fish and other poor players. I absolutely dismantled a big stack that was previously running over the table within an hour with one or two fish here and there getting caught in the crossfire. I never should have won that much money but the guy was in maniac mode and couldn't stay away from the pot button. Even after I trapped him like 2 times he kept falling for the same trap.

    I don't know why anyone would try to play tourneys for consistent money as many players do and as I have for the past. I did well for some time but maybe I just lost my killer instinct.

    Look at all the advantages of cash games:

    - consistent wins instead of consistent losses. A cash game player might knock down $400 every day instead of losing $400 every day like a tourney player.

    - cash games still have the potential of huge scores like tourneys, winning 10x the buy in on one session can be commonplace.

    - better skill due to deeper stacks. More ability for good players to control pot sizes, make good bluffs and laydowns, and get value out of hands.

    - can start and stop anytime you want. Take breaks, get something to eat, go workout or to the spa and comeback fresh and ready to kick some more ass, instead of being stuck in tourneys for hours on end.

    - the donkeys end up losing their money either today or tommorrow instead of busting you and lucksacking their way to the final table.

    - much less variance.

    - lots of free money in depot bonuses, rakeback, and so forth.
     
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  13. N 82 50 24 N 82 50 24 is offline herp derp derp

    Philadelphia, PA
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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 5:05am) in reply to Qcity

    I never play tournaments and I play a decent amount of ring poker ... I can say I'm very happy with my decision, for a number of reasons that I don't feel like typing out becase it's 5 AM.
     
  14. Qcity Qcity is offline

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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 5:09am) in reply to Qcity

    Stopping is crucial in a cash game, for the guy that asked about it earlier.

    When I lose one or two buy ins max I quit and go do something else. It doesn't matter if I lose it on a bad beat or I made a bad play, there's no reason to keep playing poker that day. If I really have the jones to play more poker I can play some dumb tourney or heads up matches or something, or just surf poker forums, rail some people, whatever.

    Most people tend to play a little higher buy ins than their bankroll can support, so just losing 1 or 2 buy ins can really throw people off their game. If you keep playing and lose 5-6 buy ins half due to tilt and half bad luck, it can be devastating and throw you off your game and confidence for weeks, even if its only 5-10% of your bankroll. There is no reason to open yourself to those kind of risks and stresses.
     
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  15. Qcity Qcity is offline

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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 5:13am) in reply to OMG_LOL_WTF

    No doubt, like when you have 27 and raise UTG, SEMIBLUFFING. Then you get two callers and flop come 772 and BOOYAHH! You got the nuts and they'd never put you on a 27!
     
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  16. weirdrash weirdrash is offline

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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 10:23am) in reply to Qcity

    I have found that I have a better long-term return from tourneys, butit is very lumpy. I will go three weeks with my bankroll stayingflat or declining then I will have a monster win or two and move up toa new plateau.

    With cash games, i would win almost every outing for small amounts sothe bankroll grows progressively. HOWEVER, I often would tilt offa decent size downstroke once every 3-4 weeks. If you can avoidthose big tilt downstrokes, cash games are probably better. THATis the key to ring game poker in my mind.

    When you get all in with your trip 8s to a gutshot str8 draw and he hits it, how are you going to react. You can grind it out the rest of the night and get back to even, OR are you going to start playing more wildly to catch up quicker and donk off another couple buy-ins. THAT really determines whether you should play cash games or tourneys!
  17. bdluss bdluss is offline

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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 11:35am) in reply to Qcity

    One thing that I forgot to add that I will now, avoid playing while tired. If you find yourself starting to get tired or unfocused, get up from the cash game and leave. For me personally at a NL game if I play more than 2 hours I lose focus, so therefor I leave (sometimes it can be as short as 30 - 45 min). So keep that in mind and not to play too late into the night when you are getting tired.

    Limit games are much different as I can play those for many hours and late into the night because limit is such a math based game with no real tough decisions (once you get your limit game right) and you can basically play limit on auto pilot.
     
  18. Green Plastic Green Plastic is offline

    Chicago, IL
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    Jul 10th, 2006 (7/10/2006 11:55am) in reply to weirdrash

    controlling your emotions and having an adequate bankroll are two of the most obvious, important things. if you cant do these, you wont win in the long run.

    you should also focus on controlling the pot size - it is easy to play AK all the way in a tourney against a player who will pay you off with just top pair - in a cash game, top pair top kicker isnt the nuts.

    i would also recommend checking out cardrunners - we have lots of great cash game stuff.

    tc
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