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  1. ive played SNGs for a while now, and just in my spare time wouldnt mind starting a transition to cash.
    i wana 4 table 50nl and have a suitable bankroll, planning to step down if i find this level to high.
    i believe i have the skills, discipline is the one thing i know i need work on.
    so whats your tips for someone like me, whos never played cash games at any kind of volume before? 6max by the way, playin on UB, so not many regs either
  2. I'm not a cash game expertise, but i can say you're going to need to control the pots. Unlike a SNG you want to avoid stacking off PF with many hands that'd you'd stack off with in a SNG.

    It's also going to be more difficult to track your winnings (no sharkscope for cash games) so i'd highly recommend creating a spreadsheet of some sort to see if you are in fact a profitable cash game player.

    Game selection is also key. I don't know UB's interface that well, but stars has stats about each table e.g. Av. Pot. , Hands an Hour, etc....

    Hope this helps and i wish you the best of luck in your cash game endeavors.
  3. tyvm for that :) sounds like a good plan.
    also, anyone care to give comment on this?
    the big stack has been aressive, and has 3 bet me twice before after button raises in about 10 orbits.

    Stage #1483316654: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-06-16 21:17:41 (ET)
    Table: SPARKS AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
    Seat 6 - GOJIRAD ($48.75 in chips)
    Seat 1 - PBTOL ($108.28 in chips)
    Seat 2 - KAROLISG ($29.75 in chips)
    Seat 3 - WSPARBANIE ($24.48 in chips)
    Seat 4 - CHARLES10_10 ($64.88 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NEILG7787 ($35.37 in chips)
    PBTOL - Posts small blind $0.25
    KAROLISG - Posts big blind $0.50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to GOJIRAD [7h 7s]
    WSPARBANIE - Folds
    CHARLES10_10 - Folds
    NEILG7787 - Folds
    GOJIRAD - Raises $1.75 to $1.75
    PBTOL - Raises $5.50 to $5.75
    KAROLISG - Folds
    GOJIRAD - Calls $4
    *** FLOP *** [6c 5c 9c]
    PBTOL - Bets $12
    GOJIRAD - Folds
    PBTOL - returned ($12) : not called
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    PBTOL - Does not show
    PBTOL Collects $10.90 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot($12) | Rake ($0.60) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
    Board [6c 5c 9c]
    Seat 1: PBTOL (small blind) collected Total ($10.90) HI:($10.90) [Does not show]
    Seat 2: KAROLISG (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 3: WSPARBANIE Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: CHARLES10_10 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: NEILG7787 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: GOJIRAD (dealer) Folded on the FLOP

    should i be 4 betting here? and im completely bemused by the flop, i think its a simple fold?
    Thread Starter
  4. First get HEM or PT.Ive got HEM and having just recently made the switch from tourneys to cash it has proved invaluable.At the mo i'm 6 tableing .10/.25 on stars with average results.Im making money but its been a very steep learning curve.With stacks of 100 plus BB you can expect a lot of post flop play.Learning to fold TPTK and even overpairs has been tougth but my stats showed me just how much $$ these were costing me.
  5. I think you should fold 77 pre there. You're OOP basically calling $4 to set mine. Not a profitable call.
  6.  
    Originally Posted by andrewkr80 View Post

    I think you should fold 77 pre there. You're OOP basically calling $4 to set mine. Not a profitable call.

    OOP cos he has control?
    and i never even considered it, but now prefer it.
    thanks for that
    Thread Starter
  7. lol. the guy that kept check raising me and 3 betting me tilted cos i stacked him once. he went on uber tilt as i taunted him. then this beauty of a hand went down

    Stage #1483410543: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-06-16 22:00:35 (ET)
    Table: SPARKS AVE (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
    Seat 3 - VIPER1014 ($16.48 in chips)
    Seat 4 - WOOOOF ($50.50 in chips)
    Seat 5 - SLICKER5011 ($17.51 in chips)
    Seat 6 - GOJIRAD ($119.85 in chips)
    Seat 1 - PBTOL ($157.73 in chips)
    Seat 2 - KAROLISG ($30.25 in chips)
    WOOOOF - Posts small blind $0.25
    SLICKER5011 - Posts big blind $0.50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to GOJIRAD [10s 10c]
    GOJIRAD - Raises $1.75 to $1.75
    PBTOL - Calls $1.75
    KAROLISG - Folds
    VIPER1014 - Folds
    WOOOOF - Folds
    SLICKER5011 - Folds
    *** FLOP *** [3s 6d 10d]
    GOJIRAD - Checks
    PBTOL - Bets $4.25
    GOJIRAD - Raises $9 to $9
    PBTOL - Calls $4.75
    *** TURN *** [3s 6d 10d] [Ah]
    GOJIRAD - Checks
    PBTOL - Bets $22.25
    GOJIRAD - Raises $46 to $46
    PBTOL - All-In(Raise) $124.73 to $146.98
    GOJIRAD - All-In $63.10
    PBTOL - returned ($37.88) : not called
    *** RIVER *** [3s 6d 10d Ah] [5h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    PBTOL - Shows [7c Ad] (One pair, aces)
    GOJIRAD - Shows [10s 10c] (Three of a kind, tens)
    GOJIRAD Collects $236.95 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot($240.45) | Rake ($3) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
    Board [3s 6d 10d Ah 5h]
    Seat 1: PBTOL HI:lost with One pair, aces [7c Ad - B:Ah,P:Ad,B:10d,P:7c,B:6d]
    Seat 2: KAROLISG Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 3: VIPER1014 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: WOOOOF (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: SLICKER5011 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: GOJIRAD won Total ($236.95) All-In HI:($236.95) with Three of a kind, tens [10s 10c - P:10s,B:10d,P:10c,B:Ah,B:6d]

    i know my line was horrible. but i was 100% sure i was getting his stack here, and ended up playing it terribly, even though he played it worse.
    better way to play this please?
    Thread Starter
  8. I'm sorry I misread the HH. You do have pos on him, but with reads that villain is agressive, hes C betting any flop. I definately think you can find a better spot to get your chips in.
  9. How do you think you played you set of 10s bad? You got a guy to stack off with only A7. It doesn't get much better than that..
  10.  
    Originally Posted by andrewkr80 View Post

    How do you think you played you set of 10s bad? You got a guy to stack off with only A7. It doesn't get much better than that..

    well, id set a LAG kind of image up,, showing down a few bluffs, and representing, also callin down quite light, just being a bit weird and tricky. just to this one guy, cos he seemed competant, but with a hue ego like it was some dick measuring contest. so maybe my line wasnt too bad, i just think the check/min riase is pretty bad. but he completely brought it. just wondered if there were any suggestions, cos i dont think getting someone to stack off that light will be easy to do to someone else.
    Thread Starter
  11. To me, you're check raise screams i have a set. But obv villain didn't believe you and he got stacked. WP.
  12. 1 more for you.
    Villain is
    Agressive
    Passive with draws

    Stage #1483361568: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-06-16 21:38:18 (ET)
    Table: SPARKS AVE (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
    Seat 5 - SLICKER5011 ($30 in chips)
    Seat 6 - GOJIRAD ($69.06 in chips)
    Seat 1 - PBTOL ($102.05 in chips)
    Seat 2 - KAROLISG ($41.20 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GAMETIME63 ($69.50 in chips)
    Seat 4 - CHARLES10_10 ($54.02 in chips)
    GOJIRAD - Posts small blind $0.25
    PBTOL - Posts big blind $0.50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to GOJIRAD [Qh Qs]
    KAROLISG - Folds
    GAMETIME63 - Folds
    CHARLES10_10 - Calls $0.50
    SLICKER5011 - Calls $0.50
    GOJIRAD - Raises $2.25 to $2.50
    PBTOL - Calls $2
    CHARLES10_10 - Folds
    SLICKER5011 - Folds
    *** FLOP *** [8d 6h 3c]
    GOJIRAD - Checks
    PBTOL - Bets $6
    GOJIRAD - Raises $20.50 to $20.50
    PBTOL - Calls $14.50
    *** TURN *** [8d 6h 3c] [As]
    GOJIRAD - ?

    give it a shot.
    Thread Starter
  13. If you're planning on doing this for real and making decent $$ then you need to:

    1) Get Hold'em Manager or Pokertracker. Not even an option.

    2) Read as much strategy articles on cash as you can. Cash strat is not the same as donkament strat. You must learn how to play deepstacked, read hands, and understand how much hand dynamics can change from street to street.

    3) Don't jump right into NL50, and for the love of god don't start grinding multiple tables until you understand basic strategy. Work on your game and start at NL25 or lower and grow your roll the right way. If you have the roll to play NL50 already still drop down to prove you can beat the lower limits. If you can't beat NL25 yet, how can you beat NL50?

    You may have some immediate success, but that is likely temporary. It's hard to tell how good you are, though if those couple hand histories are any indication then you have some obv exploitable leaks. The donks will ship you their $$ anyway--that's why they're the donks. But the regs will eat you alive.

    GL.
  14.  
    Originally Posted by oBOBCATu View Post

    If you're planning on doing this for real and making decent $$ then you need to:

    1) Get Hold'em Manager or Pokertracker. Not even an option.

    2) Read as much strategy articles on cash as you can. Cash strat is not the same as donkament strat. You must learn how to play deepstacked, read hands, and understand how much hand dynamics can change from street to street.

    3) Don't jump right into NL50, and for the love of god don't start grinding multiple tables until you understand basic strategy. Work on your game and start at NL25 or lower and grow your roll the right way. If you have the roll to play NL50 already still drop down to prove you can beat the lower limits. If you can't beat NL25 yet, how can you beat NL50?

    You may have some immediate success, but that is likely temporary. It's hard to tell how good you are, though if those couple hand histories are any indication then you have some obv exploitable leaks. The donks will ship you their $$ anyway--that's why they're the donks. But the regs will eat you alive.

    GL.

    cheers, very helpful.
    ive played a good amount of NL25, just not regularly as SNGs, my bread and butter.
    i find, however, thats NL25 on UB is the same standard as NL 10 on stars or tilt. so, with the sizeable roll and confidence, ill give it a shot. if it goes wrong, ill stick to SNGs for a while, then try NL25.
    Thread Starter
  15. i was thinking this same question this morning and saw your post.

    im not trying to jack your thread but what have you been making hourly playing 25nl? also how much does your avereage player make hourly (6 tablesing or so).

    -derek
  16.  
    Originally Posted by Iwantchips View Post

    i was thinking this same question this morning and saw your post.

    im not trying to jack your thread but what have you been making hourly playing 25nl? also how much does your avereage player make hourly (6 tablesing or so).

    -derek

    This is too vague to answer.

    Really all you have to do is think up a certain bb/100hands (or ptbb/100hands) that you have as a goal. Multiply .25 (the bb for NL25) by whatever that bb goal is. Then multiply that number by however many hundreds of hands you can play per hour.

    For example, you plan to beat NL25 for 10bb/100. You four table and can play 375 hands per hour (this is what I average playing four tables). So, 10(.25)=$2.5, which would be your $ won/100 hands. Then multiply $2.5 by 3.75 (375/100) and you get $9.37 per hour. Beats flipping burgers.

    $ won per hour ultimately depends on your skill level and the total amount of hands you can play per hour. That's it.
  17.  
    Originally Posted by DanDaw View Post

    1 more for you.
    Villain is
    Agressive
    Passive with draws

    Stage #1483361568: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-06-16 21:38:18 (ET)
    Table: SPARKS AVE (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
    Seat 5 - SLICKER5011 ($30 in chips)
    Seat 6 - GOJIRAD ($69.06 in chips)
    Seat 1 - PBTOL ($102.05 in chips)
    Seat 2 - KAROLISG ($41.20 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GAMETIME63 ($69.50 in chips)
    Seat 4 - CHARLES10_10 ($54.02 in chips)
    GOJIRAD - Posts small blind $0.25
    PBTOL - Posts big blind $0.50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to GOJIRAD [Qh Qs]
    KAROLISG - Folds
    GAMETIME63 - Folds
    CHARLES10_10 - Calls $0.50
    SLICKER5011 - Calls $0.50
    GOJIRAD - Raises $2.25 to $2.50
    PBTOL - Calls $2
    CHARLES10_10 - Folds
    SLICKER5011 - Folds
    *** FLOP *** [8d 6h 3c]
    GOJIRAD - Checks
    PBTOL - Bets $6
    GOJIRAD - Raises $20.50 to $20.50
    PBTOL - Calls $14.50
    *** TURN *** [8d 6h 3c] [As]
    GOJIRAD - ?

    give it a shot.

    This spot is very tough and very dependent on reads. The ace is a scare card for you, but you've got to remember that it's most likely a scare card for him also. If he is as agressive as you say, he would have 3bet pre with a big ace. Any decent reg isn't calling your raise on the flop with nothing. With the info given, I put him on a hand like 99. I'm shippin it in on the turn as I think it's very unlikely he has an ace. A8 is the only hand scaring me here.
  18. was gonna say i ship it in as well
     
  19. deep-stacked cash games are really quite complicated and require a lot of understanding of the game. i'm not ragging on SnG's (i just finished a set of 42 45-man turbos myself) but playing 100 BB's, or more, deep is kind of an art. first of all, best of luck with learning it.

    when you were talking about that "dick measuring contest" before, i assume you actually bothered to read what some asshole typed to you in chat... really, don't bother with chatting with most players. poker turns many decent people into nasty people... it's just not worth your time.

    anyways calling with 7-7 out of position usually isn't very good, but some people will take advantage of the button and 3-bet cutoff raisers a ton, so your call is defendable with reads. after the flop it seems like a trivial fold; if the board was not monotone (i.e. wasn't all clubs), i would prefer a check/raise or perhaps check/call

    your line on the set of tens seems fine. it might be a little transparent to c/minraise flop but whatever you did worked out. (also, check on turn is kind of meh because he could definitely have KQ KJ QJ and could check behind with a gutter. but i suppose betting the ace will scare away a ton of his hands, so letting him bet it and raising is fine)

    the QQ hand is gross because he just showed down the A7 hand when you had 10-10. so hands like A-6 and A-8 are probably in his range, which sucks because you have 2 outs against them. betting seems fine because he could definitely have something like a 8-9 or 10-8 but it's not a great spot for you.

    also add rakeback to Bobcat's formula... 6-tabling 50NL something like $4 per hour in rakeback alone i think???
  20. What does it mean to play 50nl or 100nl? I always see this but I don't play cash games so never really knew what it meant. I assume if u play 50nl that means u play stakes of $25/$50, correct?
  21. be more agressive and play most pots in position.

    dont stack off light (and i mean aq pre of ak on axx board) unless you have notes on your opponent saying he is an agrotard
  22.  
    Originally Posted by Plan Z View Post

    What does it mean to play 50nl or 100nl? I always see this but I don't play cash games so never really knew what it meant. I assume if u play 50nl that means u play stakes of $25/$50, correct?

    50nl would be .25/.50
  23.  
    Originally Posted by Plan Z View Post

    What does it mean to play 50nl or 100nl? I always see this but I don't play cash games so never really knew what it meant. I assume if u play 50nl that means u play stakes of $25/$50, correct?

    The number in "xxxNL" refers to the standard buy-in size of 100BBs. So 50NL is .25/.50, 100NL is .50/1 etc

    $25/$50 would be 5000NL
  24. "i stacked him once. he went on uber tilt as i taunted him. then this beauty of a hand went down."

    Probably not a good idea to be taunting a player who is willing to give you their stack.
    And there are 4 other players listening & watching.

    I just began playing cash at 10NL & 20NL. (Better for me emotionally. Better for a more senior player physically. Gratefully, better - it might appear - financially.)

    Question: Is HEM of value at the lowest limits?
  25.  
    Originally Posted by JACK WELCH View Post

    Question: Is HEM of value at the lowest limits?

    Yes. HEM is a value for all limits, especially if you ever plan on moving up. The ability to analyze your game with this software pays for it alone, to say nothing of the value of the HUD.
  26. for about six months I've been in the middle of doing this, and it can be frustrating.

    my first piece of advice, start as low as you can stand. Cash is truly a different game, SNG's are predominately won pre-flop, cash doesn't really even start till the flop comes. I recommend this because its likely you wont understand the game well enough to know how far out classed you are (for most people, obv dont know you or your game) until it is much to late and your are waving goodbye to your stack.

    Your preflop hand selection in sng's and in most mtt play is key, in cash you literally have the implied odds to play almost any two (not saying you should). I really think that sng players will have the hardest time going to cash, sng's are very mechanical and cash is anything but. I do however highly recommend you put in the time and effort, as a skilled player why not take advantage of that skill by making post flop decision's that can be vastly profitable?

    just remember

    1) its a post flop game

    2) learn to read the board and assign hand ranges

    3) dont feel obligated to follow a mistake on one street by a bigger one on a later street. Its cash you can reload.

    4) Just because you made a mistake on the flop (or pre), doesnt mean your hand is worthless now.

    5) know with every bet (or call) what your intentions are on the next street, you have to think hands through all the way to the end before betting them. the concept of pot control is crucial, dont build a big pot with a weak hand. this is where the addage "big hand big pot, small hand small pot" comes from.

    6) know your going to hit swings, and heart breaking losses. for me its harder because now the hit comes directly out of your bankroll.

    7) there are many more things than ive listed, spend time studying\evaluating your game. GL!
     
  27.  
    Originally Posted by DanDaw View Post

    tyvm for that :) sounds like a good plan.
    also, anyone care to give comment on this?
    the big stack has been aressive, and has 3 bet me twice before after button raises in about 10 orbits.

    Stage #1483316654: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-06-16 21:17:41 (ET)
    Table: SPARKS AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
    Seat 6 - GOJIRAD ($48.75 in chips)
    Seat 1 - PBTOL ($108.28 in chips)
    Seat 2 - KAROLISG ($29.75 in chips)
    Seat 3 - WSPARBANIE ($24.48 in chips)
    Seat 4 - CHARLES10_10 ($64.88 in chips)
    Seat 5 - NEILG7787 ($35.37 in chips)
    PBTOL - Posts small blind $0.25
    KAROLISG - Posts big blind $0.50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to GOJIRAD [7h 7s]
    WSPARBANIE - Folds
    CHARLES10_10 - Folds
    NEILG7787 - Folds
    GOJIRAD - Raises $1.75 to $1.75
    PBTOL - Raises $5.50 to $5.75
    KAROLISG - Folds
    GOJIRAD - Calls $4
    *** FLOP *** [6c 5c 9c]
    PBTOL - Bets $12
    GOJIRAD - Folds
    PBTOL - returned ($12) : not called
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    PBTOL - Does not show
    PBTOL Collects $10.90 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot($12) | Rake ($0.60) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
    Board [6c 5c 9c]
    Seat 1: PBTOL (small blind) collected Total ($10.90) HI:($10.90) [Does not show]
    Seat 2: KAROLISG (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 3: WSPARBANIE Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: CHARLES10_10 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: NEILG7787 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 6: GOJIRAD (dealer) Folded on the FLOP

    should i be 4 betting here? and im completely bemused by the flop, i think its a simple fold?

    Fold to the 3bet pre.

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