Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

TT 26bb deep in small blind against 4x raise

Reply to Thread
  1. JoePo JoePo is offline

    Royal Oak, MI
    United States

    Posts: 342
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jun 21st, 2009 (6/21/2009 11:20pm)

    New table, short stack limps in early position, button raises it 4x. What is your play here?

    Full Tilt Poker Game #12896006164: $25,000 Guarantee (95665780), Table 83 - 1000/2000 Ante 250 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:50:31 ET - 2009/06/18
    Seat 1: socrates555 (35,509)
    Seat 2: zerojim (55,485)
    Seat 3: JoePo (53,309)
    Seat 4: thetruth167 (65,120)
    Seat 5: Foinavon (25,370)
    Seat 6: moteycoupe (31,868)
    Seat 7: iwishudcall (48,648)
    Seat 8: PIRACICABA_BR (16,858)
    Seat 9: nAAzim (18,632)
    socrates555 antes 250
    zerojim antes 250
    JoePo antes 250
    thetruth167 antes 250
    Foinavon antes 250
    moteycoupe antes 250
    iwishudcall antes 250
    PIRACICABA_BR antes 250
    nAAzim antes 250
    JoePo posts the small blind of 1,000
    thetruth167 posts the big blind of 2,000
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to JoePo [Ts Tc]
    Foinavon has 15 seconds left to act
    Foinavon folds
    moteycoupe calls 2,000
    iwishudcall folds
    PIRACICABA_BR folds
    nAAzim folds
    socrates555 folds
    zerojim raises to 8,000
    JoePo has 15 seconds left to act
    JoePo

    I think if there is no limper, then this is an easy shove. However, due to the short stack limper, the button has to have a relatively strong hand, right? I would put him on 77+, AT+, QK minimum, but possibly tighter.

    All in- Easy play, but either player could easily have JJ+.

    Min Raise- Commit myself to Motey if he raises all in, but I may also be committed to ZeroJim.

    Call- Have to hope limper doesn't go all in, have to hope for a low flop or a 10.

    Fold- Avoid the marginal situation altogether?
     
  2. timzc1 timzc1 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 2,262
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jun 21st, 2009 (6/21/2009 11:59pm) in reply to JoePo

    This is a common situation and an interesting one.

    what is your table image? (none?) Do you have any info on these opponents (again: none?)

    As you are new to the table, then we have little to go on aside from mathguess work. I think you are not deep stacked enough to "set mine", so calling 4 bb OOP... it does not look like a great option (although sometimes I would do that). Folding does not look good as ten ten has some solid value. Raising to 9 or ten BB commits you (the pot odds you'd be getting on a shove re raise at that point would be very hard to turn down).

    So I think shoving is good. Scooping the antes and the 5 bets with 0 risk is an EXCELLENT result, obv. Furthermore, if you get called there is a nonnegligible chance the caller has ak (99!?), and both will fold a reasonable number of times.
    Also, your M is 10 ish, I think 1010 is not ideal, but a fine place to take a big risk.

    --timzc1
  3. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

    Posts: 727
    Joined: Jan 08

    Jun 22nd, 2009 (6/22/2009 12:07am) in reply to JoePo

    Depends on player tendencies. If button is a total nit you can probably fold but I think shoving is best since you they will both fold a large amount of the time and you're ahead of the range you've assigned the button. Also, nonnegligible is definitely not a word.
  4. timzc1 timzc1 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 2,262
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jun 22nd, 2009 (6/22/2009 4:32am) in reply to odstore

    lol, correct:

    it's "non-negligible"

    --timzc1
  5. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

    Posts: 2,005
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jun 22nd, 2009 (6/22/2009 1:59pm) in reply to JoePo

    Players will often limp Ax, especially when suited, cos they always figure when someone behind them jams, it's a pair and they'll catch an ace or make that oft-elusive flush.

    If you flat this, it's for 15% of your stack; the BB remains to act; you're OOP; will hate most flops, and I don't like folding either. Pound it and have done.
  6. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

    Posts: 989
    Joined: Dec 06

    Jun 23rd, 2009 (6/23/2009 12:31pm) in reply to hushpuckena

    Shove > Fold > Call

    For me its shove or fold. I hate these situations unless I have a good read on the players involved. If they limper has been limp/folding a lot then the raiser could be betting just to take advantage of this in which case shoving would scoop the pot 90% of the time. So in this instance I shove. But if neither has really been active then I'd probably fold. But with no reads its kind of a shitty situation and I leave it to a gut feeling I suppose. I know... that doesn't help much.... lol
  7. saukendar saukendar is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,235
    Joined: Mar 07

    Jun 23rd, 2009 (6/23/2009 6:23pm) in reply to JoePo

    I'm always leary of a SS limping up front, 15+ BBs isn't that short but he is 6% in already & that 8K says if you play you have to be ready to get it in here at least for his stack. If the limper plays at all he'll be getting his stack in pre a big % one way or another.

    I don't mind a fold.
    I don't mind a shove.
    Call - limper pushes, raiser pushes - ~88K in & 45K to call - kind of stuck - SICK!
    Min raise - limper pushes, raiser pushes - ~96K in & 37K to call - totaly stuck - SICK!
    I like a raise to 32K to set the limper in, this is going to be a scary bet as you are saying "I think the limper is commited & I'm still looking for action on the side!" I know its a nonstsndard play but it is something to think about. You will be commited to call the raisers push. On the other hand if he's pushing back he's also calling your push as he can see you are clearly commited.

    my 2 cents
  8. JoePo JoePo is offline

    Royal Oak, MI
    United States

    Posts: 342
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jun 24th, 2009 (6/24/2009 6:52pm) in reply to JoePo

    I went with the fold, but I wasn't sure if it was too tight at this stage of the tournament. I think I would shove if i had 45k or less or any kind of read, but with no reads this just didn't seem like the best spot to stick it in.
     
    Thread Starter
  9. bighaley21 bighaley21 is offline

    Cape Girardeau, MO
    United States

    Posts: 1,036
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jun 24th, 2009 (6/24/2009 7:46pm) in reply to JoePo

     
    Originally Posted by JoePo View Post

    I went with the fold, but I wasn't sure if it was too tight at this stage of the tournament. I think I would shove if i had 45k or less or any kind of read, but with no reads this just didn't seem like the best spot to stick it in.

    So youre sayin you would fold having 53k but push with 45k... That dont make much sense...
  10. thunderchild thunderchild is offline

    Brisbane
    Australia

    Posts: 242
    Joined: May 08

    Jun 24th, 2009 (6/24/2009 8:41pm) in reply to bighaley21

    Im going for gold here,shove.
  11. JoePo JoePo is offline

    Royal Oak, MI
    United States

    Posts: 342
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jun 24th, 2009 (6/24/2009 10:22pm) in reply to bighaley21

     
    Originally Posted by bighaley21 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by JoePo View Post

    I went with the fold, but I wasn't sure if it was too tight at this stage of the tournament. I think I would shove if i had 45k or less or any kind of read, but with no reads this just didn't seem like the best spot to stick it in.

    So youre sayin you would fold having 53k but push with 45k... That dont make much sense...

    Don't you have to take more risks when you have less chips? I know 45k isn't that many less chips, but there must be some chip stack size where shoving gets to be too risky.
     
    Thread Starter
  12. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,763
    Joined: May 07

    Jun 25th, 2009 (6/25/2009 1:52am) in reply to JoePo

    I'm jammin here almost every time.
     
Reply to Thread