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Turn shove!! WWYD with player behind?

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  1. 56off56 56off56 is offline

    Richmond Hill
    Canada

    Posts: 455
    Joined: Sep 08

    Apr 23rd, 2011 (4/23/2011 2:56pm)

    Inox is playing somewhat desperate poker, I don't have him on much except a draw possibly two overs. I don't have any reads at all on clod1n3.
    I'm thinking the only option here is to shove over the top to isolate and take my chances on him catching his draw...

    pokerstars Game #61186699987: Tournament #385809323, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2011/04/22 20:48:54 ET Table '385809323 45' 8-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: Ch3ck__Ra!s3 (1911 in chips) Seat 2: QuatrilhoBr (3890 in chips) Seat 3: the-brease (18942 in chips) Seat 4: Semesa1 (12360 in chips) Seat 5: cl0d1n3 (12665 in chips) Seat 6: inox1987 (2885 in chips) Seat 7: puasnovas (3800 in chips) Seat 8: ruhtra (9423 in chips)
    QuatrilhoBr: posts small blind 40
    the-brease: posts big blind 80
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ruhtra [Jc Jd]
    Semesa1: folds
    cl0d1n3: calls 80
    inox1987: calls 80
    puasnovas: folds
    ruhtra: raises 245 to 325
    Ch3ck__Ra!s3: folds
    QuatrilhoBr: folds
    the-brease: folds
    cl0d1n3: calls 245
    inox1987: calls 245
    *** FLOP *** [3h 6c 4h]
    cl0d1n3: checks
    inox1987: bets 320
    ruhtra: raises 1041 to 1361
    cl0d1n3: calls 1361
    inox1987: calls 1041
    *** TURN *** [3h 6c 4h] [8c]
    cl0d1n3: checks
    inox1987: bets 1199 and is all-in
  2. Uncle Pappi Uncle Pappi is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 3
    Joined: Feb 11

    Apr 23rd, 2011 (4/23/2011 6:52pm) in reply to rungoodmuch

    Shoving is the good option if you think cl0d's drawing with hearts or an open ended straight.

    But often, when I find myself in a situation like this (big pocket pair, low/very drawable board) and overshove the player behind, they snap call with a set. After getting 2 calls from your pot-sized raise on the flop, I'd be much more cautious. The villain could easily just call there with a set hoping for inox to call aswell for more value.

    TBH, I think I'd rather fold and find a better spot. cl0d's probably calling anyways after calling the flop, so you'll most likely get to see their hands and make a better judgement for hands to come.
  3. Bjizzle44 Bjizzle44 is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 126
    Joined: Nov 09

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 12:33am) in reply to Uncle Pappi

    im a micro stakes player and i use to get upset when playrs tell me the play that i should make based on stakes an not based on the action. but, here i go with the same thing i mock. because this is a 4.40(is it the 180m, gosh i use to love those) i would def be iso shoving in this spot. so often at these stakes ur gonna be up against fd, oesd, ovr cards and some gutters. so u def want to chip up in these spots. its the +ev play at these stakes. i do agree with the above post. so often i find myself in these spots and guy has set. but o well.

    btw, by iso shoving, if called, there will be a side pot to be won because i trully feel cl0d is on drw...

    gl
    bjizz
  4. gjallen1975 gjallen1975 is offline

    Posts: 1,162
    Joined: Jan 10

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 12:57am) in reply to Bjizzle44

    i just open shove JJ that spot pre. takes the guess work out of it, and more importanlty, the c/f too. properly rolled? then why let anybody see a flop????

    if you had 2,600 and not 1,600 different hand, but you didn't so its not.
    Edited By: gjallen1975 Apr 24th, 2011 at 01:01 AM
  5. Bjizzle44 Bjizzle44 is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 126
    Joined: Nov 09

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 3:05am) in reply to gjallen1975

     
    Originally Posted by gjallen1975 View Post

    i just open shove JJ that spot pre. takes the guess work out of it, and more importanlty, the c/f too. properly rolled? then why let anybody see a flop????

    if you had 2,600 and not 1,600 different hand, but you didn't so its not.

    Dont know how open shoving jj in this spot with 100bb+ is ever gonna be the right play.

    bjizz
  6. hornyfreak hornyfreak is offline

    Ann Arbor, MI
    United States

    Posts: 50
    Joined: Nov 10

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 3:20am) in reply to Bjizzle44

    I would raise more pre, depending on how the table is playing, more importantly the limpers. One of them could have a set here easily, though the board is not the best to trap with a set. I am not sure why Inox did not shove on the flop itself, you guys are surely calling.

    clod has you covered, so I would be cautious when he just calls the post flop raise. I am not folding here, and hoping that clod does not shove. Nothing really got there on the turn, except for already made hands that have you beat. Re-evaluate based on river if he calls.
  7. gjallen1975 gjallen1975 is offline

    Posts: 1,162
    Joined: Jan 10

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 3:27pm) in reply to Bjizzle44

     
    Originally Posted by Bjizzle44 View Post

    Dont know how open shoving jj in this spot with 100bb+ is ever gonna be the right play.

    bjizz


    Let's see....JJ is dominated by 3 of 169 hands. So, that means even if HERO was UTG it would be about 56:1 against each player left to act holding an overpair. If 8 players remain, that means 56:8, which reduces to 7:1. So, open shove JJ UTG, it's 7:1 in your favor that nobody is holding higher cards. Let them see a flop and 1)it's no longer 7:1 in your favor, 2)You have zero chance of having your all-in called by worse pre-flop, and 3)there is a good chance you'll fold the better hand. Also, this is a $4.40 and that spot isn't getting any easier to play as you move up in stakes. Open shoving pre means you most likely pick up at least 260 chips (more than a 20% increase), have a chance to get called by worse, put all the pressure on your opponents, and can't be outplayed post-flop. As I mentioned, if you had already doubled, then take less risk, but he hasn't doubled, needs to win ALL the chips and so why play the hand in a way that you could c/f or r/f, I can't see how that is EVER the right play.
    Edited By: gjallen1975 Apr 24th, 2011 at 03:35 PM
  8. bazingaking bazingaking is offline

    United Kingdom

    Posts: 146
    Joined: Apr 11

    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 7:28pm) in reply to gjallen1975

    Micro stakes, i have to agree with shoving pre. If you have a loose image this works a lot better, but all I can say is that players call bets so much easier, so by shoving (all in = scary) pre you save yourself playing a multi-way pot, and since you are nearly always ahead here, and micro players call with a pretty wide range (they might think you are making a donk move), I have to prefer all in pre.
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