First hand is the Sunday 20r and we are down to two tables here I believe. I know I've played a decent amount with the villain because I recognize his name, but I'm unsure of his tendencies and don't have notes on him (leak). What kind of range would you assign him with his stack? And is there any way to find a fold with my stack and position?

Full Tilt Poker Game #25757395082: $24,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (199535104), Table 29 - 5000/10000 Ante 1000 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:34:46 ET - 2010/11/21
Seat 1: tomi1231232 (142,101)
Seat 2: untaktik (156,602)
Seat 3: Doechens (465,727)
Seat 4: thebirdman84 (162,754)
Seat 5: theproducer1927 (344,331)
Seat 6: Babybeaver (198,652)
Seat 7: Burying_Luck (210,927)
Seat 8: pimenta7 (151,752)
Seat 9: Bertrand13 (109,912)
tomi1231232 antes 1,000
untaktik antes 1,000
Doechens antes 1,000
thebirdman84 antes 1,000
theproducer1927 antes 1,000
Babybeaver antes 1,000
Burying_Luck antes 1,000
pimenta7 antes 1,000
Bertrand13 antes 1,000
untaktik posts the small blind of 5,000
Doechens posts the big blind of 10,000
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Burying_Luck [Td Tc]
thebirdman84 raises to 22,500
theproducer1927 has 15 seconds left to act
theproducer1927 folds
Babybeaver folds
Burying_Luck has 15 seconds left to act

Second hand. This is the FTOPS brawl, which is definitely shot taking for my normal buy-in level. There are about 600 left with 500 getting paid, but shot taking or not I'm certainly not scared to bubble. No one was being overly aggressive, especially for six max. I'm unfamiliar with the raiser, but he has been the most active at the table. I have three bet him two times in maybe the last 30-40 hands and he folded each time. What's your play here and why?

Full Tilt Poker Game #25753802668: FTOPS Event #32 (186723041), Table 473 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:16:28 ET - 2010/11/21
Seat 1: Burying_Luck (29,645)
Seat 2: nyy486 (18,577)
Seat 3: philuva (41,712)
Seat 4: OffMePlaya (17,090)
Seat 5: Onetime1206 (61,034)
Seat 6: omalos (55,546)
Burying_Luck antes 150
nyy486 antes 150
philuva antes 150
OffMePlaya antes 150
Onetime1206 antes 150
omalos antes 150
nyy486 posts the small blind of 600
philuva posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Burying_Luck [Js Ad]
OffMePlaya folds
Onetime1206 folds
omalos has 15 seconds left to act
omalos raises to 2,800
Burying_Luck has 15 seconds left to act

Thanks for the feedback and happy turkey day friends.

first hand is def a shove, second hand is kinda tricky, I'm not in love with 3bet/getting it in with AJ on 25bb but 3bet/folding is obv out of the question, you said he has been somewhat loose but him raise/folding to you twice in 30-40 hands doesn't rly mean much imo, esp in a 6max where getting 3bet twice outta 30-40 hands isn't rly much so I don't expect him to be 4betting u all too light but all in all I would say: 3bet/getting it in > flatting > 3bet/folding > folding

 

Originally Posted by Burying_Luck

Looking over it was three time I three bet him in about 4 orbits. ~25 hands or so.

The only thing I disagree with is 3b fold before open fold, that's gotta be huge spew to 3b fold there. Also in the first hand what kind of range would you assign the a reg making an utg raise with 15bbs?

if he's a reg and capable his range shouldn't be as narraw as you might think, my only move on 15bb is shoving but that's just a matter of playing style, that being said if he is sometimes opening on 15bb AND and sometimes openshoving the two ranges HAVE to be the same, lets say on 15bb he openraises only strong made hands like JJ+ and on the other hand openshoves ATo, that would mean hes terrible cos his range is not balanced, now asuming he is a reg ( what you did ) he cannot be openraising only monsters for the reasons stated above, so whatever range u would assign him when openshoving u need to assign him here aswell (only if he's a reg!!), so lets say ATo+/ 77+ (or whatever u think is fine) and against that range u obv need to be sticking it in.
So if he did have something like kings w/e it means that if he openraises kings on 15bb, he's HAS to be openraising ATo aswell, if not he's not balanced = bad

Edit: yea folding prolly > 3bet/folding but both seems to be dumb anyway (second hand)

 

Originally Posted by Aslama01

You have position in the first. So call/reraise depending on how you feel. Personally I'd reraise it.

Second. I would personally fold and wait for a better hand to take him down with.

calling is out of the question and folding the second is bad aswell

 

Originally Posted by Bisull

1st hand: I like shoving here alot... can we discuss the possibility of 3betting small (allowing us to maybe fold if 340k stack shoves) here to get the AQ-AJ out??? kinda sux also because we might force a fold out of underpairs aswell... discuss please

2nd hand: real tricky imo... kinda depends on game flow here, are other stacks 3betting him as well, he might 4bet us light if he feels hes getting 3bet light alot...
3bet/getting it in>shove>flatting>folding>3bet/folding

the 340k already folded and if you're suggesting to 3bet to something like 48kish with 160kish behind and then folding u must be out of your mind

 

Originally Posted by Bisull

sorry f'd up... meant the other bigstack in the BB... im not talking about 3bet/folding to original raiser

Im talking about 3betting to 45-50k to possibly get AQ,KQ,AJ to fold (and maybe leave ourselves room to fold to a bigstack shove, maybe im optimistic here)... downside is he might also fold hand we crush so im not sure... hope im explaining this well enough

we can't 3bet/fold to ANYONE that's the point, we could 3bet/get it in to induce. And they won't fold more hands when u 3bet than when u shove..

First one depends on personal preference, I prob am never folding but one of those spots. I think he has 77 or better and alot of your premium broadways. Think you should pokerstove most likely.

The second one id prolly just fold

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

1. jam

2. 3b/c or jam. whichever u choose

not folding AJ in 6max to a aggressive player 100 from bubble with 25bbs

^^ my feelings exactly

1/2 @ Bally's tho Appst...go wither away.

 

Originally Posted by pokerproplaya08

^^ my feelings exactly

1/2 @ Bally's tho Appst...go wither away.

100k/year easily

i agree with wowibluffu 100%... hand 2 is much much tricker than hand 1.. hand 1 is snap shove all day everyday...
just curious as what you did and how it worked out..

 

Originally Posted by luckierno7

i ll keep checking out your thread to see what people say; thery re both very tough spots 4 me
even everybody said shove the TT, i do believe villain has a way tighter range utg with 16bb cause he should indeed shove Aq maybe ajs 88 77 maybe
when i raise utg with 16bb i have qq+ maybe ak- sometimes i just ship the ak; but he s not me so.. since it s decent stakes u should put him on very tight range imo, assuming he s a reg

2nd: shove i guess

pls read one of my posts above about why his range cant be as narrow as you think and as for ur game, its a common but MAJOR leak imo to openship nonmade hands like AQ/AK but openraise made hands like JJ+ because it means ur not balanced, meaning it makes ur game readable but Ive already explained that above, if he's a good reg he won't be doing this with monsters only.

 

Originally Posted by Burying_Luck

I don't really put volume in anymore but does anyone know birdman? He is a reg but is he good? Other than that I think edan is spot on with the balancing bit. Like the thoughts so far, I'm gonna keep letting this go on for others to chime in.

idk him but doesn't mean that much cos I'm only grinding the 26$'s and under but tbh 90% of all the good regsshove or fold on 16bb stacks but ofc he can still be a decent player if he chooses to openraise rather than shove but bare in mind, the word reg only implies the quantity of his poker game, NOT the quality

jam

and jam

Shove first one and its not close at all unless you have some super sick read that he's only opening premiums UTG there and jamming the bottom of his range.

Second is definately profitable to jam against someone opening a fair amount but with history of 3 betting and making him fold a 3 bet call is definately optimal. He's calling his entire range beating you when you jam so you might as well induce him to jam worse.