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Used PokerDB as Tool to win Pot - Sick Sick spot in 10rebuy

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  1. Cmac Cmac is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 2,344
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 1:44pm)

    <span>pokerstars Game #13659507462: Tournament #68990199, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (2000/4000) - 2007/12/05 - 00:45:27 (ET)
    Table '68990199 184' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: Werthefugawi (100822 in chips)
    Seat 2: Lauren&Nick (26677 in chips)
    Seat 3: hongster123 (104186 in chips)
    Seat 4: steneman (185820 in chips)
    Seat 5: POKERMAC (52028 in chips)
    Seat 6: sicadastra (26561 in chips)
    Seat 7: BOOOOOZE (51434 in chips)
    Seat 8: EddieD1027 (26892 in chips)
    Seat 9: skillz4bills (21400 in chips)
    Werthefugawi: posts the ante 400
    Lauren&Nick: posts the ante 400
    hongster123: posts the ante 400
    steneman: posts the ante 400
    POKERMAC: posts the ante 400
    sicadastra: posts the ante 400
    BOOOOOZE: posts the ante 400
    EddieD1027: posts the ante 400
    skillz4bills: posts the ante 400
    skillz4bills: posts small blind 2000
    Werthefugawi: posts big blind 4000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to BOOOOOZE [Jc Jh]
    EddieD1027 said, "lovely"
    Lauren&Nick: folds
    hongster123: folds
    steneman: folds
    POKERMAC: folds
    sicadastra: folds
    BOOOOOZE: raises 5750 to 9750
    EddieD1027: folds
    skillz4bills: folds
    Werthefugawi: calls 5750
    *** FLOP *** [Ks 3c 2h]
    Werthefugawi: checks
    BOOOOOZE: checks
    *** TURN *** [Ks 3c 2h] [3h]
    Werthefugawi: checks
    BOOOOOZE: bets 10800
    Werthefugawi: raises 10800 to 21600

    I was in my head value betting the turn, with intentions to show down by checking on river(block). But I wound up setting myself up for a good bluff on the bubble and I knew this. He min raised me quickly, and left himself with a good stack.
    My gut says he leads a king on turn (edit: I didn't want to face a check raise all in on flop b/c that would feel like a king, hence my check behind to keep pot small)....maybe a 3 but it is unlikely, and I think he waits until the river to make his move. But,it is the Bubble, and it is a sick board for jacks. I decide to PokerDB the guy while I timebank it, and see he is down $36,000! I rule the 3 out with this, and now decide it really unlikely he has king, so:

    BOOOOOZE: raises 19684 to 41284 and is all-in
    Werthefugawi: folds
    BOOOOOZE collected 68300 from pot
    BOOOOOZE: doesn't show hand
    EddieD1027 said, "interesting.. lol"
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 68300 | Rake 0
    Board [Ks 3c 2h 3h]
    Seat 1: Werthefugawi (big blind) folded on the Turn
    Seat 2: Lauren&Nick folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: hongster123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: steneman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: POKERMAC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: sicadastra folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: BOOOOOZE collected (68300)
    Seat 8: EddieD1027 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: skillz4bills (small blind) folded before Flop

    And he folds [air] getting ridiculous odds. So thank you PokerDb. Is this a retarded assumption on my part? Is this a reliable tool? Is this a well played hand or did I just get lucky he didn't have anything? Thanks.

    CMac</span>
  2. TheMayor TheMayor is offline

    Boston, MA
    United States

    Posts: 4,699
    Joined: Jul 06

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 2:37pm) in reply to Cmac

    I don't see how thepokerdb helped on this one really. I mean, just because he's down 36k you can't assume that means he's more likely to minraise bluff a lot in spots like these. Couldn't he be down 36k from being the nittiest nit to ever play, who only raises with the absolute nuts and never bluffs and lets himself blind down to zero in every tourney he plays? And along the same lines, couldn't a great player with a good read make the exact same play with a different range of hands than a bad player? *shrug*.

    I think that when you check behind on the flop he assumes you have no K, and on the turn he assumes that the board pairing 3's didn't help either so he figures to check/minraise on a bluff. Nice read by you and a good reraise...though i would never take this line personally (why no c-bet on the flop?), i think you played it fine but also did get lucky to some extent. Regardless, i wouldn't really consider thepokerdb to have been your savior or anything on this one.
  3. FreeHighFive FreeHighFive is offline

    Parsippany, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 13
    Joined: Feb 06

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 3:44pm) in reply to Cmac

    Very Nice call and read, but it should have been made by gut, insinct, and knowledge of the individual situation and not because of the guys stats. The fact that he was down 36K has no bearing on the fact that he could have popped off a K, 3, or set. In fact, for me, looking up the stats would have thrown me completely off here. If I see he is down 36K, then I think he is probably loose-aggressive, and reckless, meaning that he could easily be holding a 3 here. Maybe even forcing me to fold. I would have just made a standard continuation bet on the flop to see wher I was. However, if you do that and he raises you on the flop, you most likely have to fold. In the end you made the correct decision(which is always good), but I wouldn't refer to thepoklerdb too much in the future as your abacus for pickin off bluffs. NH
    FH5
  4. Zugwat Zugwat is offline

    College Park, MD
    United States

    Posts: 41
    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 3:48pm) in reply to FreeHighFive

    nice read

    i think if you determine hes bluffing there though, and never ever folds a King to ur shove, then why not just call the turn and check snap call the river?
     
  5. Cmac Cmac is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 2,344
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 6:42pm) in reply to TheMayor

    good points Mayor. Maybe I just used it as an excuse to go with my gut. Maybe he is down for many other reasons. It is actually a decent play by him (except for the minraise, I would have liked to see a little more of a raise, because that doesn't rep a king or 3 well.)
    Thread Starter
  6. Cmac Cmac is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 2,344
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 5th, 2007 (12/5/2007 6:45pm) in reply to Zugwat

    freehighfive...also a very good point. I don't know what I classify a big losing player as. (if that is a big losing player). Is it a nit that plays a TON, or a LAG that plays way out of his league? (probably the second. Also Zug, I guess that is a valid option as well. I guess my thoughts on that play was that if I just call I leave myself with about 20,000 and the blinds were 2,000/4,000. Plus it is the new TURBO 10rebuy on stars. I guess I just decided i'd rather get them in there in the case that I was ahead instead of call/checking and losing and saving in the case that I was behind.
    Thread Starter
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