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Variance and tilt is taking it's toll. Need Advice.

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  1. Sonic Tilt Sonic Tilt is offline

    San Francisco, CA
    United States

    Posts: 62
    Joined: Oct 08

    Jun 19th, 2009 (6/19/2009 11:38pm)

    I've managed to have to the best 3 months I've ever had playing poker and yet variance and tilt are killing me. I keep managing to run my money up from $100 to $700. $100 to $800, $100 to $1700, before I could never make a dime in cash games and now I actually feel my game has improved greatly. Yet I can't seem to keep it up. I know tilt has the most to do with this and learning to have more poker endurance. The second thing eating my bankroll is the variance which is killing me. Whether 60%, 70%, or 80% to win today I got my ass handed to me. My head is still spinning

    I love poker and want to prove myself in these cash games and show consistency in winning. I watch poker strategy videos, pokerVT and CardRunners, I think strategy away from the table. Any advice would help because I'm trying to remain positive but when you work a blue collar job and don't have crazy amounts of disposable income, poker pro dreams seem far off and just that.... a dream.
  2. zspokerpink zspokerpink is offline

    Sherwood Park
    Canada

    Posts: 780
    Joined: Jul 07

    Jun 19th, 2009 (6/19/2009 11:55pm) in reply to Sonic Tilt

    Standard, Just like when you take down 5 tournys in 3 weeks, you miss 1000 tournys the next month. Keep positive, don't. Also, if you love poker... don't turn pro.
  3. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 12:39am) in reply to Sonic Tilt

    For someone without "crazy amounts of disposable income", you need to have better respect for your bankroll.

    If you run your roll up from $100 to $1000, it should take a LONG (and I mean LOOOOOOOOONG) stretch of bad variance to drop back down to $100, because you protect your roll once running bad takes away the first $300 or whatever. You need to be smarter about when you drop back down in tournament or cash game buy-in.
     
  4. nezbit nezbit is offline

    Lacey, WA
    United States

    Posts: 1,382
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    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 1:45am) in reply to grapsfan

    bankroll management. when ur tilting drop down to micro limits where buy in is $5 or $10 and just go all in every hand til you suck out a few times... this helps relieve tilt.

    $100 into anything is goood imo. maybe once you get to $1000 keep playing small like when you were at $100, you are obviously playing to high and go busto.

    coke and ecstasy relieve tilt as well.
  5. dhubermex dhubermex is offline Senior Writer

    Mexico

    Posts: 8,471
    Joined: Jul 05

    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 1:49am) in reply to Sonic Tilt

    Variance is just one of those things we all have to put up with but tilt is completely unacceptable if you're in the game to make money. When I first started out in '04 on party, I went through a similar pattern of making small deposits, running them up to several hundred dollars, and then playing bad/above my bankroll and being forced to re-deposit. I did this 14 times ($50 each) to my recollection.

    In my case, there was a turning point in early '05 where I concluded that my poor results HAD to be due to my lack of skill and attitude. Once I figured that out and really concentrated on taking the game seriously, I never really had trouble with things like tilt and bankroll management anymore... but it was something that I had to do for myself.

    You're already aware that tilt and +EV don't mix and I'm confident you can overcome this. You just have to WANT to play better and be more disciplined imo.
     
  6. Sonic Tilt Sonic Tilt is offline

    San Francisco, CA
    United States

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    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 2:05am) in reply to dhubermex

     
    Originally Posted by dhubermex View Post

    When I first started out in '04 on party, I went through a similar pattern of making small deposits, running them up to several hundred dollars, and then playing bad/above my bankroll and being forced to re-deposit. I did this 14 times ($50 each) to my recollection.

    This makes me a feel a little better. I think you have given me some of the best advice. That and the fact that I have to respect my bankroll. I've been playing since 05 just recreationally and only this last year started taking the game seriously with pokerVT training, learning strategy, etc. I was never able to run up my bankroll to anything for years Until this year where I've done it 5 times on stars and FullTIlt after studying the game so I know I've improved a lot this year. My game is different and I've taken what I've learned and am applying it, I have a lot to learn but I know I can make money at this......and then lose it all through Tilt. I need discipline obviously to pull myself out the game after taking a few beats but is there anything I can do to help with tilt and poker endurance. To not get so frustrated when things don't go as planned or when I see in an hour or two I've lost $100 or $200 after making all the right calls
    Thread Starter
  7. U2ForNow U2ForNow is offline

    Scottsdale, AZ
    United States

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    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 2:58am) in reply to Sonic Tilt

    Sounds like you are trying to move and / or playing outside of your bankroll. We all go through it.
  8. Autolobotomist Autolobotomist is online now playing air is my style? so what

    Tempe, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 10,069
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 4:05am) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    For someone without "crazy amounts of disposable income", you need to have better respect for your bankroll.

    If you run your roll up from $100 to $1000, it should take a LONG (and I mean LOOOOOOOOONG) stretch of bad variance to drop back down to $100, because you protect your roll once running bad takes away the first $300 or whatever. You need to be smarter about when you drop back down in tournament or cash game buy-in.

    Graps is wise. Increasing your roll by 600-1600% 3 times in 3 months indicates you're either seeing the overwhelmingly positive side of variance as well and are the swongiest player on the planet, or more likely that you have no concept of bankroll management and that it's not actually variance but playing games that are waaaaaay to big that are resulting in these swings, and making busto an inevitablity.
  9. No Scope No Scope is offline

    Posts: 42
    Joined: Jun 09

    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 8:06am) in reply to Sonic Tilt

    Change your username

    Instead of looking at your bankroll and using that to judge how you are as a player, ask youself this: Am i always making the best decisions in every situation i am in? You will get unlucky, your aces will get broken, you wont get dealt a playable hand for hours. What you need to realize is that regardless of the situation, if you always make the best decision, you WILL make money. It may not be immediate, but i promise you it is true. Have faith in this system, so even after your rockets get beat by 72o, remember the following hand that you need to keep making the best decision, even if it means folding after investing more of your money into the pot. That is how you maintain consistancy, by consistantly making the best decision in every situation
  10. Zagga Zagga is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 8:38am) in reply to No Scope

    If you're a member at Cardrunners it may be worth watching Xerok's vid from June 10th on tilt and the psychology of poker.
  11. Sonic Tilt Sonic Tilt is offline

    San Francisco, CA
    United States

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    Jun 20th, 2009 (6/20/2009 1:09pm) in reply to No Scope

     
    Originally Posted by No Scope View Post

    Change your username

    Ha! Yeah I think that's some solid advice. Instead of looking at the amount in my FullTilt Account every second, I think that may not be a measuring stick I should be invested in as much as my hand histories. Maybe I have to stop thinking about the money and just focus on playing Grade A poker. I think that's probably why I end up Tilting, moving up too fast and busting my bankroll so often is cause my head saying "I just lost $100". rather than, "I played that right".

    Play right and the money will come
    Thread Starter
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