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Very Interesting Hand Deep in a Tournament

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  1. JohnnyCashOut JohnnyCashOut is offline

    Dallas, TX
    United States

    Posts: 15
    Joined: Dec 05

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 1:57pm)

    FullTiltPoker Game #6203173495: $40,000 Guarantee (46605645), Table 46 - 6000/12000 Ante 1500 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:07:10 ET - 2008/04/27 Seat 1: Stuart Paterson (515,129)Seat 6: JohnyCashOut (374,549)Seat 8: daisyxoxo (895,814)Seat 9: rzepster (464,508)Stuart Paterson antes 1,500JohnyCashOut antes 1,500daisyxoxo antes 1,500rzepster antes 1,500JohnyCashOut posts the small blind of 6,000daisyxoxo posts the big blind of 12,000The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to JohnyCashOut [As Ad]rzepster foldsStuart Paterson foldsJohnyCashOut calls 6,000daisyxoxo raises to 40,000JohnyCashOut calls 28,000*** FLOP *** [Td 2d 7d]JohnyCashOut checksdaisyxoxo checks*** TURN *** [Td 2d 7d] [2c]JohnyCashOut has 15 seconds left to actJohnyCashOut bets 18,000daisyxoxo calls 18,000*** RIVER *** [Td 2d 7d 2c] [9d]JohnyCashOut has 15 seconds left to actJohnyCashOut bets 70,000daisyxoxo raises to 836,314, and is all inJohnyCashOut calls 245,049, and is all inUncalled bet of 521,265 returned to daisyxoxo*** SHOW DOWN ***daisyxoxo shows [9c 9h] a full house, Nines full of TwosJohnyCashOut mucksdaisyxoxo wins the pot (752,098) with a full house, Nines full of Twos*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 752,098 | Rake 0Board: [Td 2d 7d 2c 9d]Seat 1: Stuart Paterson (button) folded before the FlopSeat 6: JohnyCashOut (small blind) mucked [As Ad] - a flush, Ace highSeat 8: daisyxoxo (big blind) showed [9c 9h] and won (752,098) with a full house, Nines full of TwosSeat 9: rzepster folded before the Flop You can also view the hand here: http://www.pokerhand.org/?2576292
    At first this hand seemed like a cooler but after thinking about it a fold not only seems possible but maybe even standard! After I bet the river I think my hand is fairly faceup and for him to raise me means he can beat me right. His range on the river becomes totally polarized to boats and bluffs and I think a bluff here seems VERY unlikely (maybe 10% or less).

    On the other hand, I have the nut flush in a blind vs blind battle where there was 46k in the pot before the flop rolled out and I only had 375k to start the hand, should I really be mucking the Ad in that sizeable of a pot.

    I'd love to hear your opinions

    Thanks.

    JohnyCashOut
     
  2. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 2:09pm) in reply to JohnnyCashOut

    Blah.

    Do you hate limp reraising all in pre? Had he been letting you limp in previous spots? It is usually my experience that somebody raising when you limp the sb is never super light, so you could very likely get it in here and not ever have to think about it. Again nothing wrong with calling here.

    Flop check is standard.

    I would probably bet more on the turn, as another diamond is probably going to kill your action if he has showed no interest in the pot yet ie betting flop raising your turn bet (but the turn information is hindsight). Betting more on the turn just makes more sense to me, but trying to induce a shove here with a weak lead isn't bad but is player dependant.

    I understand why you want to fold the river but blah. I think you have to call based on the times he does this with air. He is the chip leader, and this isn't an awful time for you to turn your hand into a bluffngiven the board. But this is seriously a sucky spot. I think that daisy guy is good too isn't he?

    I don't even know what to say haha

    His hand is a full house or a bluff as he never shoves like the Kd here. But bringing myself to fold this would be painful. But like you said you literally have a bluff catcher at this point, and if he is not prone to doing so you can get away from it I guess, but that is me seeing results, in the moment I would make a crying call 99% of the time but I suck. I think this is just a sick spot.
  3. MattyDaCobra MattyDaCobra is offline

    Ensenada
    Mexico

    Posts: 2,131
    Joined: Oct 06

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 2:36pm) in reply to JohnnyCashOut

    That is an interesting looking hand. Looks like a good read, too.
     
  4. willcutyou willcutyou is offline

    Kousséri
    Cameroon

    Posts: 770
    Joined: Nov 07

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 3:53pm) in reply to JohnnyCashOut

    I think that it might be muckable on the river, but it deffinetely would not be an easy one to let go of...
     
  5. RagTopDoc RagTopDoc is offline

    Waukesha, WI
    United States

    Posts: 293
    Joined: Dec 07

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 5:11pm) in reply to JohnnyCashOut

    Am I the only one who's questioning the limp-call preflop followed by the check on flop?

    Seems to me that when you limp-call preflop he's going to put you on a wide range of hands, many of them speculative. The flop comes all diamonds and you check... were you planning to check raise here? At this point, he's struggling to put you on a hand I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure he has no idea you have AA at this point.

    The turn doesn't complete the flush but you bet out... now what's he thinking? He can't put you on a 2... would you have limped-called preflop with a 2? Maybe A2 suited? I think he calls your small turn bet because he's putting you on the Ad or Kd so he and thinks his 9's are good.

    Then the gin card hits for him on the river and you're toast.

    Why not re-raise preflop and bet the flop?
  6. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 5:40pm) in reply to RagTopDoc

    He doesn't lead the flop because that takes the aggression away from the pre flop raiser. If he raised pre he will lead the majority of flops and you can c/r. He checks behind which isn't the worst the thing. He was clearly looking to check raise the flop, and his weak lead on the turn was praying to get shoved on. That being said when the player suddenly goes nutty on the river after being so passive throughout the hand (discounting preflop) it puts you in a sick spot.

    Reraising preflop would have worked here as he will shove his 99 on you, but his range includes air considering you limped pre and he is in position, so limp ccalling disguises the strength of your hand. That being said limp raising isn't neccessarily bad but niether is limp calling.
  7. JohnnyCashOut JohnnyCashOut is offline

    Dallas, TX
    United States

    Posts: 15
    Joined: Dec 05

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 6:51pm) in reply to adam_mc

    Thanks for all replies.

    Daisy is definately a strong player btw.

    I couldn't bear the thought of taking down the blinds in that spot hence the limp. I also decided that he couldn't fade a reraise. Apparantly I was wrong as he had 99 (PS how sick would I have been if we'd gotten them allin pre, yuck!) To be honest I called very quickly and never really considered folding, but afterward in analysis I decided that his play is either boat or bluff, knowing that how often does he bluff here? I think its a standard fold but all the people I asked said it was a cooler. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself? Anyway Stuart Patterson aka "TheDONATOR" took it down and he's a hell of a player so congrats to him.

    I'm waiting for someone to say: "You are an idiot, that's a standard muck when you lead with the nut flush and get raised on a paired board."

    Follow-up question: Is it easier to fold Ad tc given that I played it the same way until the river?

    Adam- to answer your question about the turn bet: I never base my bet size upon the hand I have (except on the river), I decide whether to bet or not based on my hand and then the flop texture and previous action dictates what % of the pot I bet (Normally I bet 55-60% for a continutation bet unless its an ace high board in which I bet about 40-50% of the pot. etc)

    Any and all opinions are welcome.

    - JohnyCashOut
     
    Thread Starter
  8. kowboy8686 kowboy8686 is offline

    Saint Cloud, FL
    United States

    Posts: 6,648
    Joined: Aug 07

    May 7th, 2008 (5/7/2008 8:08pm) in reply to JohnnyCashOut

    you played it for max value and why not? played very well up to the river imo...oh yes the river..well i know some would mayyyybe get away from it there but ill never be one of em! let that pot go? i dont think so!! your first thought was correct imo...cooler..and yes daisy does own! now that he is playing sites other than bodog word will quickly spread...ul is all!
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