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Very interesting spot in the 65k....Thoughts please

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  1. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

    Tijuana
    Mexico

    Posts: 618
    Joined: Feb 07

    Nov 23rd, 2008 (11/23/2008 10:29pm)

    Ok...here is the setup. About 100 and something people left in the tourney, I am sitting in top 10 in chips when this hand arises. Now, up to this spot, I have not been taking big risks..

    Full Tilt Poker Game #9136825375: $65,000 Guarantee (68517842), Table 21 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:49:49 ET - 2008/11/23
    Seat 1: ERach3 (10,945)
    Seat 2: stpauli111 (9,110)
    Seat 3: The-Toilet 0 (24,089)
    Seat 4: jdpc27 (29,497)
    Seat 5: sweetescape (31,368)
    Seat 6: jpak100324 (1,731)
    Seat 7: lakenut42 (6,409)
    Seat 8: KILL SELF FTW (8,378)
    Seat 9: jzeeeee (20,064)
    ERach3 antes 50
    stpauli111 antes 50
    The-Toilet 0 antes 50
    jdpc27 antes 50
    sweetescape antes 50
    jpak100324 antes 50
    lakenut42 antes 50
    KILL SELF FTW antes 50
    jzeeeee antes 50
    The-Toilet 0 posts the small blind of 200
    jdpc27 posts the big blind of 400
    The button is in seat #2
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to jdpc27 [Qh Ad]
    sweetescape raises to 1,200
    jpak100324 folds
    lakenut42 calls 1,200
    KILL SELF FTW folds
    jzeeeee folds
    ERach3 calls 1,200
    stpauli111 has 15 seconds left to act
    stpauli111 raises to 9,060, and is all inThe-Toilet 0 folds
    jdpc27 has 15 seconds left to act
    jdpc27 XXX

    Now, I'm not usually married to AQ and I am considering folding here..but I begin putting players on their ranges.

    I put Sweetescape on something like 55-QQ, and AJ+

    I put lakenut on a small pp or one of the trap hands..also maybe to include A5s+ K9s+ Q10s+ type hands

    I put ERach on a similar range as lakenut

    I assign st pauli as any PP and / or a AX worse than mine type of hand with a small chance of AK

    Then I look at the pot: 1,200 (x4) plus Blinds (600) plus antes (450) plus all in by st pauli of 7800 more = 13,600 or so. I then also realize that lakenut can't fold and he will throw in his remaining 5,200 for a total of ~ 19,000 in the pot.

    So, as I look at it, I really have two choices here..I either fold, or I reraise to try to isolate the small stacks, knowing that if i beat stpauli but lose to lakenut, that i still rake in some side pot, and that if i lose to stpauli, then the max i lose is 9k and I still have over 20k in chips, still good for top 25 or so.

    Now, I am only worried about SweetEscape as 1) he has me covered, and 2) I have assigned him with the strongest range of all the players in the hand, so in this instance after tanking for a lil bit, I decide that I have fold equity, am at worse in a race unless he flips up the two hands in the range I assigned that destory me (AK and QQ, both unlikely based on the action imo) and I push all in.

    Now, the question I have for the high stakes MTT regulars is:

    1) Would you have played this hand any differently? I mean, you are top 10 in chips with only 130 or so left..there will be plenty of spots to get your money in as a favorite or exploit weaker players pre / post flop as blind pressures increase...or do you see this as a good way to go after a ton of chips where even if SweetEscape folds (as you expect and hope) you can increase your chip stack from 30k to 50k and good for chip lead, or even if sweetescape calls and you win what you expect to be a race, then your stack increases to over 70k which would give you a tremendous chip lead???

    I'm just curious as to thoughts as the blind level was still pretty low and I'm not sure if my play was optimal. In any event, as the hand played out, I shoved. After some people reply, I will post the results.

    JD
    22 
  2. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Nov 23rd, 2008 (11/23/2008 10:35pm) in reply to jdpc27

     
    Originally Posted by jdpc27 View Post

    I put Sweetescape on something like 55-QQ, and AJ+

    just wondering why u put him on 55-QQ and not 55+ most players dont fold KK or AA even if they are utg
     
  3. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

    Tijuana
    Mexico

    Posts: 618
    Joined: Feb 07

    Nov 23rd, 2008 (11/23/2008 10:37pm) in reply to okse54

     
    Originally Posted by okse54 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by jdpc27 View Post

    I put Sweetescape on something like 55-QQ, and AJ+

    just wondering why u put him on 55-QQ and not 55+ most players dont fold KK or AA even if they are utg

    I had been watching him play at the table for a while and believe I had a read on the strength of his hand in relation to his bet sizing and his position..anotherwords, he would bet his KK and AA different than he would bet his QQ and JJ. Based on that, I didn't believe he would 3x BB utg with AA or KK...I believe he would have limped the hand or bet smaller.

    What I am really getting at tho, are these the kinds of plays that players make to win tournaments or to spew off their chips?? That is the essence of what I am trying to figure out. At the time, I believed the move to be the strongest one available..I just want to ensure i'm not off base here.

    JD
    22 
    Thread Starter
  4. stpauli111 stpauli111 is offline

    Posts: 763
    Joined: Nov 06

    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 1:07am) in reply to jdpc27

    I don't think you are even ahead of my squeeze shoving range. I mean a utg 3x and two callers I'm not really expecting to have much FE. Which is the reason I shoved AJo cuz I thought there was a decent chance I could get it in ahead plus the huge equity in the pot and I didn't want to flat call (although rethinking the hand i think fold is best.)

    Anywho I'd snap fold AQo out of bb with 3 players still to act and it would even be a little tough if I were the UTG raiser with 2 guys left. I also think this is a pretty terrible spot to go for this gamble and if utg calls you are likely in horrible shape and very possibly sharing cards plus given the action in the pot it is already more likely that some of your outs are gone. Hell I think AKo could possibly be a fold. but yeh i def dont like this iso at all, unless you are rly good at all the math and know exactly what you are doing (like djk) i dont think exploiting small equity spots is necesary at all for tourney players.
    182 11
  5. RichardHurtz RichardHurtz is offline

    Russian Federation

    Posts: 3,376
    Joined: May 07

    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 1:25am) in reply to stpauli111

    Why don't you play on pokerstars?
  6. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

    Tijuana
    Mexico

    Posts: 618
    Joined: Feb 07

    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 1:35am) in reply to stpauli111

     
    Originally Posted by stpauli111 View Post

    I don't think you are even ahead of my squeeze shoving range. I mean a utg 3x and two callers I'm not really expecting to have much FE. Which is the reason I shoved AJo cuz I thought there was a decent chance I could get it in ahead plus the huge equity in the pot and I didn't want to flat call (although rethinking the hand i think fold is best.)

    Anywho I'd snap fold AQo out of bb with 3 players still to act and it would even be a little tough if I were the UTG raiser with 2 guys left. I also think this is a pretty terrible spot to go for this gamble and if utg calls you are likely in horrible shape and very possibly sharing cards plus given the action in the pot it is already more likely that some of your outs are gone. Hell I think AKo could possibly be a fold. but yeh i def dont like this iso at all, unless you are rly good at all the math and know exactly what you are doing (like djk) i dont think exploiting small equity spots is necesary at all for tourney players.

    Appreciate the comments. As stated before, I was really sure of what hands the players at the table were holding. I assigned you a range that only included one hand that dominated me (AK) and had your most likely holding as A10 or AJ or a 77 88 type of hand..a hand you couldn't flat with and had to raise or fold..i did not have you on a monster. The logic was if I could isolate, I had a race with you at worst, and if you were holding A10 or AJ as expected, I am a favorite to win the hand against you...

    Believe me, I have no problem tossing AQ, AK, QQ, or any of those type hands when the situation calls for it. I am just stuck between whether this is a great isolation attempt with litte risk to losing chips if the pot is isolated, or whether this play is too spewy if you are not able to isolate. My belief at the time was that I had a great deal of FE as I was putting another top 10 stacks tournament equity on the line in order to call..and he would have to call over two reraises. and if isolated, then the most i can lose is 8400, if I just beat you then I lose like 3k, and If I win, I win 20k in chips. At the time, I thought it was little risk for pretty good reward. I am just looking for some views on whether this play was great or spewy.
    22 
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  7. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 1:36am) in reply to jdpc27

    Im mucking aq in this spot without much thought TBH...Like st.pauli said he doesnt have much fold equity here and AQ will not be ahead of his range most of the time...
     11
  8. pikappraider78 pikappraider78 is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 2,039
    Joined: Aug 07

    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 3:03am) in reply to gutshtallin

    i fold here too. You are a top ten stack and have barely anything invested in the pot. the main reason is that you are covered my a utg raise. Theres a chance he isnt sstrong but the aq plays terrible against anything that he would call you with. Your stack is still huge and im sure you could find a way better spot later in the event. i hate a shove
     
  9. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

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    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 3:21am) in reply to gutshtallin

     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    Im mucking aq in this spot without much thought TBH...Like st.pauli said he doesnt have much fold equity here and AQ will not be ahead of his range most of the time...

    whaddaya do with TT?
     21
  10. BrokenTPot BrokenTPot is offline

    Fort Jennings, OH
    United States

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    Joined: Mar 07

    Nov 24th, 2008 (11/24/2008 3:30am) in reply to rock3656

    Instaaaaaaaaaaaa Muck.
     
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